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All Forum Posts by: James Ross

James Ross has started 13 posts and replied 35 times.

Post: The meaning behind NOI, Cap Rate, and Cash on Cash Return

James RossPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Colorado Springs, CO
  • Posts 35
  • Votes 14

Hello Fellow Newbies!

I've been doing what all good newbies do when struggling to overcome analysis paralysis, namely reading books!  And while doing so, the significance of some of the terms are starting to coalesce for me.  In this case this was thanks to the ABCs of Real Estate by Ken McElroy, which I highly recommend.  Some of it has a more apartment investing flavor than single family home, but even if your focus is on single family homes like mine is at present, I've learned a lot.  Let me be clear, though, I'm a newbie with only one rental property under my belt so far.  So I am NOT an expert.  Do your own research and read up on these and other important terms.  Read lots of books and, of course, the forums!

I wanted to share a few related numbers whose meaning is starting to click for me, both in the hopes of having actual experts confirm that I'm understanding them aright and to hopefully help others just starting out in their path.  This may be very obvious to some people, so my apologies if so.  I may also be wrong in some (or all) parts.  In the immortal words of Ralph Wiggum, "I'm learnding."


Net Operating Income
First, we have the Net Operating Income. NOI is, simply, your monthly income minus all monthly expenses EXCEPT loan principle and interest. Income is your expected rent plus things like parking fees, vending machines, laundry fees, or anything else that might come with a property (generally just rent for buy and hold single family homes). The expenses are things like vacancy, property management, HOA fees, pool maintenance, lawn care, landlord insurance, taxes, utilities, airbnb membership costs, capital expenditures, etc. Anything YOU (rather than the tenant) will be paying for.

Since NOI includes everything except your loan expenses, it is very helpful in determining if your income from the property will cover the payments on your loan each month (based on down payment and interest rate). As such, it can help you determine an offer price that will work. Your cash flow is NOI - Loan P and I. If your NOI is $1000 and loan principle and interest would be $1100, then you need to make a lower offer or pass on the property.


Capitalization Rate
Next, we have Capitalization Rate.  This is your NOI divided by the purchase price and multiplied by 100 to get a percentage.  Now, for the purchase price this does not mean the seller's asking price.  In general the seller's asking price has nothing to do with your offer.  Your offer should be based on what will make the property cash flow enough to be worthwhile to you.  Whether the seller accepts it or not depends on the market, how motivated they are, and how well you and your team negotiate.  So, what we do is move some terms around to come at a good offer price.  Rearranging things, we get offer price = NOI / Cap Rate.  This means that once you have your NOI, you need to know what Cap Rate you find acceptable. 

This is something I'm still figuring out how to determine myself, but each market has a typical cap rate that you can use a ballpark number.  Talk to other investors, property managers, real estate agents, and the like from your target market to see what they use for cap rate.  Take your NOI and divide it by what you consider an acceptable capitalization rate in order to arrive at an offer price that will work.  My understanding is that where NOI (and the loan terms) will tell you if you will cash flow, Cap Rate will tell you how good an investment the property is likely to be (higher cap rate = better investment).  You can refine what Cap Rate is "acceptable" with experience.  By talking with real estate agents and others familiar with the market, you can also determine if this offer price is even remotely realistic and, thus, if the property is worth pursuing.  It can save you a lot of time.


Cash on Cash Return
And third we come to Cash on Cash Return. This is pretty straightforward in that it is your monthly profit (cash flow) divided by the cash you put into the property (down payment, renovation costs, repair costs, advertising for tenants, initial cleaning, LLC setup fees, etc). Your profit is NOI - loan principle and interest. The cash put into the property includes all setup fees and expenses. These vary based on loan terms, the property, and the intended use of the property (short term rentals, for example, have extra setup fees compared with long term rentals). The length of time it takes to do the renovations and repairs will greatly affect your CoC Return as well. Each month of expenses that is not covered by rent counts as cash you are putting into the property, and thus lowers your CoC Return.

Cash on Cash Return is another way of measuring how good an investment is, one that is a little more near and dear to the heart than Cap Rate in my opinion.  If you know what you want your CoC Return to be, it will help you determine how much you can sink into a property for renovations and adjust your offer or negotiate loan terms until the down payment is acceptable.  If the cash on cash return is too low, it may be time to consider not putting in the gold plated toilet seats and self cleaning showers.  It's important to know what renovations will give you the biggest increase in profit for the lowest price in the least amount of time.   


Thanks for reading!  I hope that this post is useful to at least some new investors.  For myself, I find that if I organize my thoughts and put them out in public for people to praise or mock, I find out if I in fact know what I think I know.  

Post: Question on calculating projected income

James RossPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Colorado Springs, CO
  • Posts 35
  • Votes 14

I appreciate the responses!  I was assuming that the "current market rent" was what your analysis shows that the units would rent for, even if the current tenants pay less.  In that case, it sounds like using the $500 number makes more sense since it is what your analysis showed, if I understand you all correctly.  I definitely see the need to determine where you expect the market to go and to ensure you do in fact know what the vacant units can rent for rather than just taking the listed price as gospel.  

Post: Question on calculating projected income

James RossPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Colorado Springs, CO
  • Posts 35
  • Votes 14

Hello Everyone!

So I'm reading through the ABCs of Real Eastate and am in chapter seven "Is It Really a Diamond?".  I wanted to ask a question on the numbers people use when evaluating vacancy to get projected income on an apartment.  Projected income is based on the actual rent being generated, rather than the advertised rent per unit (my take away is this is because rents change over time and current tenants may be grandfathered in at an old rate).  I see that Ken McElroy first calculated the projected income based on the historical rents, then uses this number and the excepted vacancy percentage to calculate the expected income lost to vacancy.  For reference, this is in the "income" chart on page 90

My question is, doesn't it make more sense to calculate vacancy off of the maximum potential income (assuming all units are rented at the current market rate) rather than the actual potential income?  Any vacant unit has the potential to be rented for the current market rate, not the average rate that the current tenants pay.  Aren't you actually missing out on that current market rate with vacancy?

To put some numbers on it, if 10 units have a current market rent for $500/month each, but the 10 units are rented at an average of $450/month right now, the way he calculates vacancy uses the $450 number.  With 10% vacancy (90% occupied), this means a total potential income of $4,050/month ($450*10*90%).  Calculating it the way I'm describing above would use the $500 number, giving a vacancy of $4,500 ($500*10*90%).  This gives a more conservative number, which is good I would think.  

So to sum up, why not use the actual generated rent for the gross potential income ($4500/month), but the market rate for vacancy ($500 at 10% vacancy) for a total of $4,000 in potential income?

Thank you for the help!  This is the first I'm learning about apartment investing rather than single family homes and it's quite different.

Post: Competative Market Analysis for Rent

James RossPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Colorado Springs, CO
  • Posts 35
  • Votes 14

Hello Bigger Pockets!

I've been researching how to get decent comps from various online sources (realtor.com, zillow.com, trulia.com, etc) when looking at potential rental properties.  I found a rundown on what goes into a competitive market analysis on rockethomes.com, but it only covers home price, not rent. The link is here for anyone curious: https://www.rockethomes.com/bl...

Basically what the article boils down to is: 
1. Find recently (3-6 months) sold homes in a similar neighborhood of similar size
2. Note differences between comps (1 more bedroom, 300 less square footage, not located next to a toxic waste treatment plant, etc)
3. (Hard part) determine value adjustments for each difference (1 more bedroom adds $5000 to value, 300 less square feet subtracts $15,000, etc).  
4. Add up all the value adjustments for each comp to determine equivalent price
5. Assign weights to each comp, with the comps with the least number of adjustments getting the most weight.  Weights are decimal numbers that add up to 1 across all comps (eg: comp 1 weight is 0.5, comp 2 is 0.2, comp 3 is 0.3).  
6. Multiply adjusted comp values by the given weight and add up the prices.  This gives you the estimated price for the property.

What I'm wondering is, does this sound accurate (if simplified)?  And, more importantly, does a similar process work for estimating rent?  You'd have to base everything off of rent rather than home value, of course.

Thank you!  And happy Halloween!

Post: How do you analyze CapEx costs in a new area?

James RossPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Colorado Springs, CO
  • Posts 35
  • Votes 14

Thank you Tim!  I'll do that, and I'll check out the spreadsheet too. Much appreciated!

Post: How do you analyze CapEx costs in a new area?

James RossPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Colorado Springs, CO
  • Posts 35
  • Votes 14

Hello Bigger Pockets!

I'm in the midst of building a spreadsheet to help me quickly analyze new deals, and the part I'm having the most trouble with is estimating CapEx. My thought is to put together a database of big ticket items (roof, siding, water heater, appliances, etc) that I will update with prices every year or so. My goal is to put in the specifications of the property, like the footprint, and have the spreadsheet pop out needed information, including CapEx.

For example, I'm putting together the roofing section of the database right now and have a wide variety of roof types listed.  Finding the conservative lifespan of each type was relatively easy thanks to https://roofonline.com/.  However, I'm having trouble finding good cost estimates for replacing each type of roof. How much does asphalt single cost to replace (including labor)?  What about clay tile?  Solar panel?  Green roofing?  That's the sort of thing I'm trying to find, preferably cost by square foot so it can be adjusted based on the individual property. 

Does anyone have a good resource they use when looking in a new area (or in my case, starting out in my home area as a new investor)?  Or am I going overboard with the analysis should just pick a number like $300 per month and let future experience teach me if it's a good one?  Thank you very much!

Post: Covid deferred payments

James RossPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Colorado Springs, CO
  • Posts 35
  • Votes 14

@Brett Danehey

This is some months after you posted, but maybe it's useful. I had some tenants who were having issues paying on time, and eventually it deteriorated into not paying at all due to the primary income winner getting in a car accident.

They wound up applying for a COVID federal rental assistance program and after about a month I got all the backed rent plus payments moving forward. Not an ideal situation but it certainly lowered everyone's stress level once the money started flowing again.

Post: Colorado Springs property line markers

James RossPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Colorado Springs, CO
  • Posts 35
  • Votes 14

Hello, I'm in Colorado Springs and looking to get the property line between my property and the yard behind it so that I can put in a retaining wall and ensure it is on my property. I've been quoted $1100-1300 for this which is three or four times what I expected.

Does anyone have a good surveyor in Colorado Springs or know what a normal price is? Home advisor quotes $344-676, and my lot is much smaller than some of the larger lots they have further outside the city, so I imagine it should be on the low end.

Post: Water heaters for single family rentals

James RossPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Colorado Springs, CO
  • Posts 35
  • Votes 14

Hello everyone! Thanks very much for taking the time to reply. In general I'd prefer less maintenance for a rental, so I'll probably go with a tank rather than tankless. But before getting a new one, I'm going to look into replacing just the bed pan. Myself if possible, though I have no experience.

Post: Water heaters for single family rentals

James RossPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Colorado Springs, CO
  • Posts 35
  • Votes 14

Hello! My wife and I are renovating our house in order to eventually rent it out. The water heater's bed pan is rusting through and the water heater needs replacing. We live in Colorado Springs which has fairly hard water. 

Currently we have a 50 gallon gas heater. We're considering whether to get another 50 gallon or going to a 40 gallon or possibly a tankless water heater. Does anyone have any suggestions on water heaters for future rentals? Especially with hard water.

Thank you!