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All Forum Posts by: Jacob Thorpe

Jacob Thorpe has started 13 posts and replied 49 times.

Quote from @Jehn Gir:

Hello

Trying to do gut renovation first time. Bought an old property (in NJ) with one existing floor. Got an architect to design a   complete renovation inside and add a new floor. It was approved by the city and a building permit issued in Oct 2024. We started construction - the building frame is up and now I get a stop work order from city. They are saying I lack a zoning permit!! I obviously didn't realize I needed a zoning permit (since I'm building on existing foundation). Also, I'm not sure why they approved my plans and asking for a zoning permit now :(  They are asking for architectural plan of the old structure - I'm not sure if my architect has it. What if my architect doesn't have it? Or if he is not responsive? What are my options now? Any advice would be appreciated.


 building permits and inspections and zoning are two separate entities, two completely separate offices. See if the architect or structural engineer are able to draft something based on the old structure, talk to the office and practice strong communication they should be willing to work with you to get whatever is required. Trying to sneak past your zoning or inspector is a quick way to end up on their **** list. 

You can do all the book reading in the world and still lose your *** in real estate. Best way to learn is to dive in. You wont get better loan terms or raise more capital with a degree. However if you want to work at the bank handling investment loans or real estate mortgages, something finance related might help. 

Quote from @Callie Carman:
Quote from @Jacob Thorpe:
Quote from @Callie Carman:

Hello, I am 19 yrs. old and I want to begin investing in land but I don't know where to start. I want to start investing in assets early in life, and possibly become a landlord in the future. My budget is up to $70k and I will need help from family to start. I am majoring in Architecture so I will be NCARB certified and have a license in the future. I also have family ties in the real-estate industry; my uncle was the project manager for a county in GA, and another family member is the CEO of an architecture firm. My issue is that I don't know the basics and fundamentals of investing. What are the biggest factors of an area when looking to buy land, what should I look for? How should I use my family ties and education to make the most out of investing in land? Are there times of the year I should invest in, such as first Quarter?  How do I find out what area/lands development companies will want to purchase in the future?


 A lot of the questions you asked you will have to learn by diving in, and learning hard lessons. Find a market or strategy, sounds like youre starting with land. I am not sure you can make money with only 70k in land. 70k is lower than most of the lots in my area. I cant see buying acers of undeveloped land with 70k..

Best thing you can do is take your money and partner with someone whos crushing it and joint venture on deals together. If you come with cash in hand, almost anybody will partner with you. Stay informed and read plenty of books!


 Thank you,

But how do I find people I can trust and won’t take advantage of my age? Are there red flags to look out for?


 People wont take you seriously for your age, people will attempt to take advantage of you regardless of age or experience. I have just read a book about this, and a business owner spoke about his employees who would take "multiple taxi trips in one day" or "dine at the most expensive restaurants even when alone" its just something that will happen. In real estate, you have to watch out for contractors. Be aware of excuse makers, people who will seem bothered by you verifying what they say, perpetually late people, people who seem so busy they always have 'something going on'. There is always a notable reason why someone is wasting your time, likely they are trying to take your money and too lazy to do the work. RE is filled with these type of horror stories. The first lender I worked with had gone into lending because on his first commercial flip we lost over 250k because of a contractor. You can lose a lot of money from a contractor, and alot of time. So don't be afraid to hold them accountable, push the issue. Find a good lawyer you can make a relationship with to have in your back pocket should you need to sue, use strong contracts, use work tracking apps like busybusy, always have a couple of different contractors on speed dial so you can fire them and replace them immediately. you've got to be bullish, have strong goals in mind. At the end of the day, money talks so don't be dissuaded by age or lack of experience. That being said, 70k is flip money or buying a rental, not land money, I don't know of any development that can be done with only 70 grand but I could be wrong.

Quote from @Leslie Beia:
Quote from @Jacob Thorpe:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Jeremy H.:

I'd be tempted into doing an STR (maybe with a higher down payment to ensure cashflow, just run ROI numbers) or an apartment complex - I personally wouldn't mess w/ small stuff. Even developing a mobile home park, affordable townhomes or self storage.

A "miserable corporate job to no where" isn't all that bad - health insurance benefits, 401k matching, probably some sort of discount stock purchase plan, stability, lenders like it. Sounds like she has a good W2. 

Netting 30k/month isn't a small feat - especially without putting in consistent work. You really need a business or a commercial asset in my opinion - contractor bays, oil change type centers -something that everyone uses. Think if one house grosses 1k/month, then it may net say $500/month (after maintenance/repairs, CapEx). You're asking for 30k month - that's 60 of those houses...in a few years. Not saying it's impossible, but that is a full fledged business. You really need an infrastructure to run something like that - systems, people...and you have to keep it going.

Also - if you invest that 500k in an S&P 500 tracker - you'll average 8%/year - 40k. Not too shabby for literally 0 work or thought. 

I would also take a look at your expenses - 15k/month in Michigan? Is it really that HCOL of an area? 15k/month = 180k/year. FIRE would essentially be pulling 4% a year so she needs around 4.5mm. The two of you together at 30k/month = 9mm. I think you'll need some time to get to that number, honestly. 

The other serious honest question you have to ask yourself (you're wanting in invest a lot of capital - and your sister's at that) - how successful have you been in RE? What do your yearly numbers look like? What's your overall ROI and cashflow? Have you been more or less successful than you predicted? Why?


I find it ironic how people categorize their no where corporate job then say that job has created this wealth for them and security.. Also I find it kind of humerus were 15 years ago when i joined BP the FI number was 5k to many up to 10k  now its 15k and up.. ( which is realistic in my mind I never thought 5k was realistic.  Getting to 30k or more a month on NET NET cash flow takes a boat load of capital or you need to be in the transactional side of the industry. 

 Sitting on a college degree of software development, I concur.  I started investing my savings because I couldnt find a decent job, now it pays annually what I would have made in software development. Although, in time, it will vastly out perform. Glad I got started young. 


 Do you have any thoughts on asset type that you'd like to share?


 That will wholly depend on you and your financial philosophy/strategy. My question for you is what are you looking to get out of life right now, what are your intentions with the money? If you do not have a baseline set for yourself you can be entering into dangerous uncharted waters. 500k is a lot of money, you might be like a ship of the line thats lost its rudder if you arent carful. 

Taking a certain degree of humility with my following post here, as that is a decent bit of money: 

1) be disciplined in your approach and have a solid intention for what you want to do with your funds

2)examine your life, as Socrates said.. know thyself. what excites you and what are you lacking? This will determine what you have the most joy doing, investing your money should feel fun and exciting, success is suppose to feel good not stressful!

3) How can you achieve your well intended goal and hit your mark in a measurable and diligent way?

4) assuming you have these questions answered... what I would do with that money is the following

-find a good market, work with someone who knows that market very well

-pick an asset class, manufactured, single famliy, multifamily, commercial, industrial

-based on your well intended financial goal, decide if you want immediate returns growing your warchest of funds, or if you want long term cashflow.

There are pros and cons to everything. Holding an asset long term... well people have a lot of finance talk about appreciation, unrealized gains, equity.. a lot of that is true and valid. But in the real world, your money is gone and you get a building, or in your case.. quite a few buildings. This will cost money to maintain, cost money to manage leasers, subject you to the will of tenants/leasers should they damage something, should someone get injured, your money will be gone (for now), subject you to the will of the market, interest rates, potential market volatilities.. you will need a lawyer at that amount for sure and a good CPA. 

If you get in and get out with lets say, land, or new construction, or flips or something where your money is deployed in a much shorter duration.. you will still be subject to the whims of the market place but because the duration your funds are deployed and because you arent concerning yourself with tenants theoretically there is 'less risk'. Even then, there is still some stuff to manage. Like contractors, which can be ROUGH especially for someone with a day job who cant be on site beginning and end of shift. 

My best advice to you, partner with someone who knows their market and has a solid game plan.

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Jacob Thorpe:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Jacob Thorpe:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Ken M.:
Quote from @Tekoa Da Silva:

Does anybody have stories about investing in real estate (any kind) during the volatile 1970s-1980s? Any idea how the inflation & high interest rates affected the RE market/s? 

Thanks for any comment! 

There was no internet. No iPhones, No printers. Everything was hand typed, and xerox'd.
Everything was closely guarded by real estate agents and their weekly published MLS listings in black and white.
Gas lines were two hours long to get half a tank.
We were told interest rates would never go below 6%, the current rate was 8%

What did you have a question about? That's a long time ago in a different world.

well 70s was carbon paper..  and rates were about 9% .  Listings were published in a book and realtors kept all the keys in their office there were no lock box's  you had to go to the listing brokers office and check out the keys. 

Amortizations were all done in the little book that title companies handed out.. rates went from 6% as noted to 24% ..  and were done by 100.00 incredments and by year time frames 

so if you wanted to know the payment on a 45k loan at 10% for 7 years you found the 10%page and then 40k ( went up to about 200k)  then the 5k the payment was spelled out and you added the two together to get the monthly payment.. ONLY lenders had computers to figure out apr etc.  I used that book for all my seller finance contracts and bout wore it out.. most of my seller carry in those days was 10% to 18% for 5 to 10 years.. 

 How do you feel about 'disruptive' technologies, how were you able to take your skill from finding information and deals this way, to how they are done in todays world?


I just muddle along with Tech changes not really my forte at all.. Most important thing to me is I learned how to type very vast in high school.. thats been the most important to me.. I cant really use the computer except to e mail.. I dont know how to do most any function with it I just learned how to copy and paste a few years ago.. So for today If my scanner is working thats what I live on.. I close quite a few deals every month generally 10 to 15 either buying or selling so . the other thing is docusign I know how to sign them but I have no clue how to load them in the computer.. my staff does it all for me.. I dont need to know this stuff I hire people to do it for me.. And i spend my time making deals or typing BP responses.:) And travelling to my clients place of business and helping them do RE deals.. I was taught RE is belly to belly so I fly 100k plus miles a year visiting the markets I work.. Love my job.. and its not a job its a lifestyle.. RE has always been a lifestyle for me personally.

 Haha I love that, I was born into the computer world but the way you describe finding real estate deals back then reminds me of a scene out of lord of the rings. Gandalf in the bowels of Minis Tirinth combing through ancient scrolls to find  information on the one ring.. or.. the one deal to rule them all! Probably a nerdy reference but I am from the town that invented Dungeons & Dragons, Lake Geneva Wisconsin. You should come out to Lake Geneva sometime.  Lots to offer here for heavy hitters, and intermediates like myself. We are a town of seven thousand but the city pulls in almost 100m a year from tourism alone. Opera has, or use to have a house around here. Plenty of good real estate from mansions, multi-million luxury homes, big second home market for vacationers  to undeveloped lots and everything in between. Although when youre looking up, everything looks amazing and big, so maybe a more experienced eye would say differently.


I have been there.. the old money mansions are awesome, the lake is so
pretty with the crystal clear water.. My mom is from Milwaukee and I
have relatives that live at Lake Pewaukee and when my mom was alive she
went back every summer for the state fair.. And as a young kid I spent
my summers with my grandparents.. they had a cabin on Lake Poygan.. by
Winneconne . fond memories.. I funded one flipper over in the two towns
just south of Madison.. but he died mid stream and I had to just
liquidate the properties..

Lake Geneva though is OLD Chicago Money and or BEER money from Milwaukee it appeared to me. great spot.



 Honestly, I cant say I am surprised. Big old money here for sure. Run into some very wealthy folks at the dog park, which is always interesting. Sorry to hear about your friend, I have recently lost a deal because of similar circumstance, investor had a death in the family. Those types of things can throw curve balls but in my opinion, at the end of the day it wouldnt be worth much without friends and family and I understand his loss. 

 That is very cool  your mom is from milwaukee, you are Wisconsinite in my book.  If you got to see Milwaukee in its glory days, that is awesome. The upper east side is still beautiful right on the lake, but many of the other districts have tapered off when the big jobs left.  Lake Geneva and Walworth county is beautiful, they keep it pretty clean with  strict conservation and zoning... DNR pays close attention here as well. They just passed another conservation ordinance for rural, and if you want to even add an addition to your property within LG city limits you've got to cough up 10k for the general permit alone. So, to the chagrin of some developers it can get a little expensive at times but on the flip side of that coin it provides kind of a firewall so that what ever is being built is being built with a strong intention. I think in that manner, you get some pretty cool people moving in and less "black rock, mega corp" style development projects. The guy from Reno911 just moved here a few months ago. Thomas Lennon who played Jim Dangles. 

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Jacob Thorpe:
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Ken M.:
Quote from @Tekoa Da Silva:

Does anybody have stories about investing in real estate (any kind) during the volatile 1970s-1980s? Any idea how the inflation & high interest rates affected the RE market/s? 

Thanks for any comment! 

There was no internet. No iPhones, No printers. Everything was hand typed, and xerox'd.
Everything was closely guarded by real estate agents and their weekly published MLS listings in black and white.
Gas lines were two hours long to get half a tank.
We were told interest rates would never go below 6%, the current rate was 8%

What did you have a question about? That's a long time ago in a different world.

well 70s was carbon paper..  and rates were about 9% .  Listings were published in a book and realtors kept all the keys in their office there were no lock box's  you had to go to the listing brokers office and check out the keys. 

Amortizations were all done in the little book that title companies handed out.. rates went from 6% as noted to 24% ..  and were done by 100.00 incredments and by year time frames 

so if you wanted to know the payment on a 45k loan at 10% for 7 years you found the 10%page and then 40k ( went up to about 200k)  then the 5k the payment was spelled out and you added the two together to get the monthly payment.. ONLY lenders had computers to figure out apr etc.  I used that book for all my seller finance contracts and bout wore it out.. most of my seller carry in those days was 10% to 18% for 5 to 10 years.. 

 How do you feel about 'disruptive' technologies, how were you able to take your skill from finding information and deals this way, to how they are done in todays world?


I just muddle along with Tech changes not really my forte at all.. Most important thing to me is I learned how to type very vast in high school.. thats been the most important to me.. I cant really use the computer except to e mail.. I dont know how to do most any function with it I just learned how to copy and paste a few years ago.. So for today If my scanner is working thats what I live on.. I close quite a few deals every month generally 10 to 15 either buying or selling so . the other thing is docusign I know how to sign them but I have no clue how to load them in the computer.. my staff does it all for me.. I dont need to know this stuff I hire people to do it for me.. And i spend my time making deals or typing BP responses.:) And travelling to my clients place of business and helping them do RE deals.. I was taught RE is belly to belly so I fly 100k plus miles a year visiting the markets I work.. Love my job.. and its not a job its a lifestyle.. RE has always been a lifestyle for me personally.

 Haha I love that, I was born into the computer world but the way you describe finding real estate deals back then reminds me of a scene out of lord of the rings. Gandalf in the bowels of Minis Tirinth combing through ancient scrolls to find  information on the one ring.. or.. the one deal to rule them all! Probably a nerdy reference but I am from the town that invented Dungeons & Dragons, Lake Geneva Wisconsin. You should come out to Lake Geneva sometime.  Lots to offer here for heavy hitters, and intermediates like myself. We are a town of seven thousand but the city pulls in almost 100m a year from tourism alone. Opera has, or use to have a house around here. Plenty of good real estate from mansions, multi-million luxury homes, big second home market for vacationers  to undeveloped lots and everything in between. Although when youre looking up, everything looks amazing and big, so maybe a more experienced eye would say differently.

Quote from @Ken M.:

This will be boring - I don't do anything "fancy" or "innovative" or "guru like" that is half baked false hoods.

The first thing I look for are people who want/need to sell quickly. They have already called a real estate agent to list on the MLS and when the agent comes over to take the listing, they tell the prospective seller that the dog poop in the living room has got to go.

The rot in the bathroom behind the toilet needs to be fixed. The broken kitchen sink needs to be replaced. The swastikas in the son's bedroom have to be painted over. The septic needs to be covered, the roof needs to be replaced, aluminum wiring needs to be upgraded from 60amps to 200amps with romex according to code. You get where I'm going.

I buy houses realtors won't/can't list. The people still need to sell, but no one in their right mind will buy it. Enter me.

Being terribly deranged in a nice way, and eternally optimistic, I make an offer. It's an offer, people, not a directive! I offer what the property is worth to me, because I am the one making the offer. If they want an MLS offer, they are free to make the repairs and list the property.

So, the SubTo part, I am very, very experienced. I am well capitalized. I do not borrow money for the EMD. I only buy if I can have equity right from the start. I never pay MLS list price. They haven't fixed the house up to MLS list price level, so why would I pay that price?

If they have a loan at a favorable rate, I give them additional money to take over the loan. They benefit based on the interest rate. If I don't have to put down a large payment on a new loan, it's worth giving them more. I also save on origination points, I save on interest rates. I pass on extra money to them. They like that.

My super duper, proprietary "Quick Calc Pro" spreadsheet tells me in minutes what price I can pay for the property, what my cash flow will be, what my entry fee is, how much I can wholesale or fix & flip it for, how much to give the seller, and a ton of other items that only someone deranged and experienced would care to know. And it works, for TX, AZ, CA, GA, FL, TN, OH and so on.

Yes, and it works for buying pre-foreclosures, too..

I always get a title report, I always disclose, I always use escrow, I always record, I never try to hide what I am doing, I don't use Trusts. There are legal reasons for all of these decisions. I use professionals when I need to.

I've had only two Due on Sale called in over 30 years. The first was in 2006. I have been sued, investigated, audited and commended by judges. I've won every time that an issue has arisen. I document, document, document. And I keep my deals clean.

Life is good when you are bullet proof. Just be fair and honest and follow the law. That's all I ask.


 It pays to be detail orientated, great approach

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Jeremy H.:

I'd be tempted into doing an STR (maybe with a higher down payment to ensure cashflow, just run ROI numbers) or an apartment complex - I personally wouldn't mess w/ small stuff. Even developing a mobile home park, affordable townhomes or self storage.

A "miserable corporate job to no where" isn't all that bad - health insurance benefits, 401k matching, probably some sort of discount stock purchase plan, stability, lenders like it. Sounds like she has a good W2. 

Netting 30k/month isn't a small feat - especially without putting in consistent work. You really need a business or a commercial asset in my opinion - contractor bays, oil change type centers -something that everyone uses. Think if one house grosses 1k/month, then it may net say $500/month (after maintenance/repairs, CapEx). You're asking for 30k month - that's 60 of those houses...in a few years. Not saying it's impossible, but that is a full fledged business. You really need an infrastructure to run something like that - systems, people...and you have to keep it going.

Also - if you invest that 500k in an S&P 500 tracker - you'll average 8%/year - 40k. Not too shabby for literally 0 work or thought. 

I would also take a look at your expenses - 15k/month in Michigan? Is it really that HCOL of an area? 15k/month = 180k/year. FIRE would essentially be pulling 4% a year so she needs around 4.5mm. The two of you together at 30k/month = 9mm. I think you'll need some time to get to that number, honestly. 

The other serious honest question you have to ask yourself (you're wanting in invest a lot of capital - and your sister's at that) - how successful have you been in RE? What do your yearly numbers look like? What's your overall ROI and cashflow? Have you been more or less successful than you predicted? Why?


I find it ironic how people categorize their no where corporate job then say that job has created this wealth for them and security.. Also I find it kind of humerus were 15 years ago when i joined BP the FI number was 5k to many up to 10k  now its 15k and up.. ( which is realistic in my mind I never thought 5k was realistic.  Getting to 30k or more a month on NET NET cash flow takes a boat load of capital or you need to be in the transactional side of the industry. 

 Sitting on a college degree of software development, I concur.  I started investing my savings because I couldnt find a decent job, now it pays annually what I would have made in software development. Although, in time, it will vastly out perform. Glad I got started young. 

Quote from @Callie Carman:

Hello, I am 19 yrs. old and I want to begin investing in land but I don't know where to start. I want to start investing in assets early in life, and possibly become a landlord in the future. My budget is up to $70k and I will need help from family to start. I am majoring in Architecture so I will be NCARB certified and have a license in the future. I also have family ties in the real-estate industry; my uncle was the project manager for a county in GA, and another family member is the CEO of an architecture firm. My issue is that I don't know the basics and fundamentals of investing. What are the biggest factors of an area when looking to buy land, what should I look for? How should I use my family ties and education to make the most out of investing in land? Are there times of the year I should invest in, such as first Quarter?  How do I find out what area/lands development companies will want to purchase in the future?


 A lot of the questions you asked you will have to learn by diving in, and learning hard lessons. Find a market or strategy, sounds like youre starting with land. I am not sure you can make money with only 70k in land. 70k is lower than most of the lots in my area. I cant see buying acers of undeveloped land with 70k..

Best thing you can do is take your money and partner with someone whos crushing it and joint venture on deals together. If you come with cash in hand, almost anybody will partner with you. Stay informed and read plenty of books!

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Ken M.:
Quote from @Tekoa Da Silva:

Does anybody have stories about investing in real estate (any kind) during the volatile 1970s-1980s? Any idea how the inflation & high interest rates affected the RE market/s? 

Thanks for any comment! 

There was no internet. No iPhones, No printers. Everything was hand typed, and xerox'd.
Everything was closely guarded by real estate agents and their weekly published MLS listings in black and white.
Gas lines were two hours long to get half a tank.
We were told interest rates would never go below 6%, the current rate was 8%

What did you have a question about? That's a long time ago in a different world.

well 70s was carbon paper..  and rates were about 9% .  Listings were published in a book and realtors kept all the keys in their office there were no lock box's  you had to go to the listing brokers office and check out the keys. 

Amortizations were all done in the little book that title companies handed out.. rates went from 6% as noted to 24% ..  and were done by 100.00 incredments and by year time frames 

so if you wanted to know the payment on a 45k loan at 10% for 7 years you found the 10%page and then 40k ( went up to about 200k)  then the 5k the payment was spelled out and you added the two together to get the monthly payment.. ONLY lenders had computers to figure out apr etc.  I used that book for all my seller finance contracts and bout wore it out.. most of my seller carry in those days was 10% to 18% for 5 to 10 years.. 

 How do you feel about 'disruptive' technologies, how were you able to take your skill from finding information and deals this way, to how they are done in todays world?