All Forum Posts by: Chris Watkins

I'm debating on adding a bedroom to a basement of an up & down duplex. Adding the bedroom will mean I need to remove the second stairwell to the rear of the basement. This stairwell is more conducive to being able to move larger items into the unit (i.e., queen beds, dressers, tables). I am worried that if I remove that second stairwell access point that I might severely limit what tenants will be able to move into the property - and therefore limit my property offering to a potential tenant. The main front entry is your normal basement entrance that has steps down and then it turns 90 degrees to the door. 

Has anyone else had issues like this before? I assume there are basement entry areas that make it difficult to move in and out but that tenants make it work? 

Everything else about the idea seems to work okay, it's just this final issue that I need to work though. I would love to know if anyone else has had experience with this?

Thank you @Loren Clive for the opinion. 

@Sam LLoyd - This would be for a long term buy and hold. Great points underestimating the pros. I agree with your comment about tenants in a 2 bedroom will typically be easier on a unit. That should be added to the cons. One thing that comes to mind as you bring up the appraised value - from an ROI perspective the only way to recoup the cost of the storage sheds would be in the rent rates since the appraiser wouldn't count much of that towards appraised value. Great point. Since this is a BRRRR strategy, I am anticipating a cash out refinance in a year, and would want to recoup some of my investment.

If I go through the process of city permitted changes then the county records would reflect the additional bedroom addition. I would assume the appriaser would go off of that information? I should probably verify that with an appraiser, eh? 

Awesome feedback, thank you!

Thanks for the thoughts @Nathan Bell. I do recognize the value of storage. As part of the budget for the bedroom addition, I included the cost to buy outside storage sheds in the backyard for each unit to replace the storage sheds removed by the bedroom. Thoughts?

I'm trying to decide whether or not to add a bedroom to a basement unit of an up and down duplex here in Spanish Fork, Utah. 

Currently, the property has a shared laundry room and 2 small storage rooms in the back of the basement. I have checked with the city to make sure there were no red flags and they gave me options to make it work. If I did most of the work myself I estimate the cost would be more or less $10,000 to add the bedroom. 

The duplex is currently a 4 bed 2 bath all brick built in 1933. It is only 1800 square feet including the basement. 

The bedroom would be added where 2 storage units currently are (side by side). The laundry area would stay a nice spacious laundry area for the basement. The stairwell going downstairs to the shared laundry area would then be removed at that space in teh upstairs would become an area for a stack-able washer/dryer closet area for the upstairs unit. 

I bought the property 1 month ago and have nearly finished updating the upstairs unit (electrical, plumbing, new bathrooms, new kitchens, flooring and paint) and am moving to the downstairs unit shortly. 

Here is what I see, what am I missing? 

Pros to the additional bedroom:

1. Estimate an additional $125-$150 per month in rent for the additional bedroom in the basement.
2. I then wouldn't have to provide shared laundry units for the tenants because they'd provide their own separately. (less cost to me)
3. Avoids the hassle and complaints that would be associated with the shared laundry. 
4. There aren't any good comparables to estimate the value of the additional bedroom but a guess would be $15,000 of added value. 

Cons to the additional bedroom:

1. Cost of the renovation could go up if/when something goes wrong on the renovation. 
2. To access the bedroom you would have to go through the laundry room so not an ideal floorplan with the change
3. Extra time required to complete the project (+1 month & the associated extra mortgage/holding costs were built into the 10k project cost)

What would you do?

I'm late to this one, and surprised it wasn't mentioned before. But I found www.realestateanalysisfree.com and love it. For strictly buy & hold deal analaysis you should check out. Fun to see another Utahn on here...

I've heard turf isn't as easy as it sounds... but I definitely should consider that option in my research. 

At this point my priority for the landscaping of the investment property is parking, storage, and the utility of the yard. The property in question has a big empty backyard with manually watered grass with no parking in the front yard. So my plan is to create a carport in the back, possibly add a storage shed for each unit and even maybe an RV parking area should a tenant want to store a boat or RV at an additional cost. I'd rather that back half of the yard have plenty of low maintenance concrete. Yes - it will be hot, but i'd rather it be parking as that is a typical challenge for Multi unit properties is not enough parking. 

Now i just need to decide on what to do with the middle area on the tree and the side and front yard. 

Thanks for all of the input. I'm going to have to look at the cost to install sprinklers and maintain & mow grass, versus the cost of commercial weed tarp, decorative gravel, simple drip irrigation system, and drought tolerant plants for that area. 

I would welcome any other feedback you have - especially with want to do with all the backyard space!

@Bill S. - Thanks for the insight. I do need to set up the costs and figure it out. I guess I assumed that xeriscape and zeroscape were more similar. The goal of the landscaping of an investment property to me is to have a good curb appeal while minimizing maintenance especially for multi family properties. For a multi family property where there are 2 small bedrooms per unit (which is the one I am purchasing), my assumption was that I would not need a lot of lawn area for families, as I don't really want big families in my small units. So with that I like the idea of a good drip system of low maintenance plants and lots of rock just as much for the lower maintenance of it as the water conservation itself. But I hadn't thought of the appeal of the unit having grass over nothing... so I appreciate the perspective. I'll definitely let you know what I decide.

@Mike Hanneman - good point on the existing lawn. I guess my thing is, since the existing lawn on the property I am looking to purchase is more like a super old lawn with more weeds than grass and is very uneven (lots of settling), I'll probably need to redo it anyways... Also, the fact that this property doesn't have an automatic sprinkler system means I would have to add one anyways. If I am going to be spending money on a sprinkler system, I might as well put in a drip system only and do just the xeriscape idea. Thoughts? 

I appreciate the input and perspective - I look forward to hearing your feedback. 

Is nobody else doing this? If not, why not? What is the appeal of grass to an investor?

@Mindy Jensen - Thanks for the reply! I don't think it has been accepted as much here as elsewhere. But with the right design I believe you can make a place look great so I don't worry about what others think unless they are investors looking to purchase... I would hope that they see it for the value it is on the bottom line. I will definitely be checking out these plants and talking to my local nursery for sure on this. Glad to hear some others are doing this.

@Teri Feeney Styers - Good point about the difference between xeriscaping and zeroscaping. I definitely would rather shy on the side of more decorative rock than a rock "graveyard". I hadn't thought about the issue of heat on the concrete. Thanks for the insight. The way that this lot is set up, the parking is in the back and so I think I could get away with more concrete in teh back with less landscaping back there...

Why do so many Multi-unit property investors want/allow grass on their rental properties? 

Why pay for lawn care for $100 per month when you can do decorative rock or other xeriscape designs and hire some neighbor kid to spray weeds once a month? 

Seems like as a multi-unit property investor, you are looking for the smallest yard possible with the least amount of maintenance possible. Wouldn't it be ideal to have a lot with just a house, a lot of driveway parking and cement (low maintenance), a small amount of drip system w/ drought resistant plants, and a bunch of high end weed tarp underneath decorative rocks?

I realize that there are city regulations regarding vegetation. I realize that with rocks you will have to deal with weeds (even using a nice weed tarp). But wouldn't you rather spray for weeds over your rock landscape once a month over mowing every 7-days, all while paying for watering, sprinkler repair, and fertilizer (while still dealing with weeds)? 

I must be missing something here because I can't find much discussion on this and a lot of people recommend grass. Yet this will definitely affect your cap rates and bottom line numbers. 

I am a very practical person when it comes to the numbers. But I am also inexperienced as a landlord and just getting started. What am I missing? Any thoughts or recommendations?

More specific background to my question:

I am closing shortly on a duplex in Spanish Fork Utah. It's a small old duplex with a decent size lot that I plan to keep for 10+ years (hopefully more). There has never been an automatic sprinkler system installed. The seller has owned it 50+ years and has always manually moved around the sprinklers (lived close so that was nice). But I am about 15 minutes away and do not want to have to go there 2 times a week to manually move the sprinklers around all the time. Seems like a no-brainer to rent a bobcat for a day, level out the old very settled and uneven grass, throw on a heavy duty commercial weed tarp, decorative rocks, drought resistant plants, and a simple auto drip system. Or on top of that, take that $100 per month savings over 4 years and pay the 5k upfront to cement most of the lot for parking (carport?), storage units, and maybe a place to store a boat or RV (all up-sell opportunities for charging more to tenants). So the end result is a mostly cemented (virtually no maintenance lot) with decorative rocks and carefully placed drought resistance plants hooked up to a simple automatic drip system. That would be a super attractive property to have in my porfolio with  lower than normal operating costs. Why aren't more people doing that?