All Forum Posts by: Ivan Lai

Mike and Darren, count me in!  I already notified them of their breach of contract and my intent to terminate, and since they did not respond, I've removed their machines from the laundry room. And the more people act together, the more powerful we can be. I'm all for joining forces!

@Jeff Bryant, thanks for sharing your experience.  It's pretty clear that if you wait for them to give you the green light to terminate the agreement, that will never happen.  They are trained to never terminate the agreement early, and to trick customers into automatically renewing contracts so they are always locked in.  I took the action to notify them of their breach, and notified them that the agreement is terminated due to their intent not to remedy the breach.  They still didn't respond, so I terminated the agreement.  I'll respond to you separately with more info if you'd like, just don't want to spell out all the specific details on this forum. 

@Peter Halliday, I might be interested in buying, will send you a separate message to ask for more details.  Cheers.

@ Dominic Bouchard, the service provided is that they put coin-operated washers & dryers in my laundry room, they make sure the equipment is functional and collect the coins, and split the collected revenue with me.  I'm roughly 6 months into the 2-year contract.  Not sure I understand the cost question.

It's no secret to any investors and landlords out there that many laundry rental companies are unscrupulous. Well, here's another example with CSC, who owns CoinMach. Except this time, I'm fighting back. The ROI of this effort is certainly not worth my time even if I win, but enough is enough. We, as investors, can't keep letting these companies bully us around. Companies bullying customers via contract terms is a pet peeve of mine, given my experience leading strategic sourcing teams.

I have a fourplex in California that has a laundry room with washer & dryer managed by CSC / Coinmach.  I got a letter in May, stating that "Beginning this month, you will see an Administrative Fee of 9.75% deducted from your gross collection."  I heard they sent this letter to all their customers.  With a 50/50 revenue split, this means they just shaved off about 20% of my net laundry income.  I read through the agreement to make sure this is not allowed per the contract, and I called them up to ask them about this.  The area manager called me back and said it is totally within their right because there's a clause that states that the payment to me is revenue split "... less any sales, use, property taxes and/or license or occupational fees".  He said this increase qualifies as "occupational fees".  I said the letter sent by CSC clearly indicates that the increase is due to "investments in people, systems, technology and service delivery", and not a fee related to occupying the space.  He said... and this totally cracked me up... "these fees are incurred because we have our equipment in your laundry room."  So, in conclusion, his point is -- Because CSC / Coinmach is in the business of occupying people's laundry rooms and putting equipment in them, any and all business expense qualifies as "occupational fees", and they can increase the fees unilaterally, in any amount, per the agreement.  This argument is just so outrageous that I'm frankly surprised their lawyers bought off on it.

I've led Strategic Sourcing groups for two Fortune 500 companies before, where my sole job was to negotiate contracts with suppliers and service providers and draft contracts with our corporate legal teams, ranging in amounts of up to tens of millions of dollars.  So while I'm not a lawyer, I'm no stranger to contract terms.  From my experience, I also know that the sales managers have zero power to change their legal stance, so it was pointless to argue with him.  Only their lawyers and senior management can change the terms on something that applies to all their customers.  They have a team of highly-paid lawyers, I have logic.  It's a textbook case of David vs. Goliath, but I'm willing to give it a try.  I've already served them a notice of breach of contract and my intent to terminate, we'll see where we go from here.  Depending on their response, I may start an online petition with my fellow investors, all of their customers.  The petition may help me push back on this increase, and all other investors can then use this ruling to either terminate the contract with them to go with someone else, or at least block the increase in fee.  Anyone else interested?

@Paul Lo, I'll send you some info through private messaging.  

Hi all, thanks for your help.  I decided to take a chance with CAB Properties.  Wish me luck!

Also, I'm involved in a joint legal action with other investors to try to get our money back, let me know if you're interested in joining us.

Also, anyone worked with Renters Warehouse in Chicago?

Thanks Rick, I had not seen one of the threads.  Interesting info.  

Anyone with good experiences with a local property management company?  Anyone has experience with CAB Properties?

Thanks Stephen.  I've dealt with RPM before, my concern is that the quality of service is highly dependent on the franchise owner.  I worked with RPM for my California properties, it started out great, then the owner sold the franchise to an out-of-state buyer who tried to manage it remotely, and it just went downhill from there.  Without the owner physically there, the employees started doing the bare minimum and drove away several good tenants before I fired them.  Do you know the RPM owners in Chicago area personally?  Thanks.