All Forum Posts by: Jeff Joachim

@Karlyn Brasselmon While I'm weary of "gurus" giving real estate coaching, $500 isn't a ton of money. Most people spend thousands of dollars in those programs. I have done a ton of wholesale deals here in Orlando, Fl and have never paid a guru. I went to work for a real estate company that taught me how to wholesale. Before spending too much money with this coach, I would really utilize the resources here on Bigger Pockets, and listen to podcasts.  

Ask a specific question, pertaining to what you are looking to accomplish on the forums. 

For example: 

  How can I get started investing in St. Louis with $5,000? or Where can I find a rental property for $65,000? 

Chances are there are a ton of people on here that can point you in the right direction and probably save you a ton of money. You would be surprised by the wealth of information on here.

Best of luck!

Hello @Chantz Ireland. You were given good advice above, a great place to start is by calling bandit signs on the sign of the road, googling "we buy houses cash" websites in your town, and going to REI meetings.

Wholesalers can be a tricky bunch that may sometimes lack integrity or experience, just make sure you double check their comps, ARV, and projected rehab. I do a lot of wholesale deals here in Orlando, FL, and the feedback I get is that buyers tend to go through a couple of wholesale deals or wholesalers before finding a good one.

Best of luck!

Hey @Gabriel Ayala, 

I understand your reluctance to pass your buyer's info on to the other wholesaler. You can get a non-circumvention agreement, otherwise known as a NCND, plus a fee agreement filled out, outlining the compensation you are entitled to. A NCND basically states, that whatever, prospect you present to the seller (or wholesaler in this case), is your client and they do not have the right to conduct business with them without you. A fee agreement will outline the amount of compensation you are entitled to for producing a ready and willing buyer.  

These two things should have you covered. I have used them from time to time here in Orlando,Fl. Best of Luck!

@Darrell Shepherd I really appreciate your perspective on this. It must be frustrating having to repeat the same thing continuously without any results. What is the solution? Do we just not ask questions?

If a doctor just started prescribing medication to patients before doing an assessment to figure out what the ailment is, they would be very inefficient and seem incompetent.

In my experience, a lack of specificity leads to a perception of incompetence. For example, I think it is extremely rare to find true great flip opportunities, so 80% of the deals I find cater to investors looking for rental properties. If you are someone that is looking for a flip, you will hate my guts if the majority of what I send you are homes with modest equity but high rental returns. Furthermore, if I find a flip but it is not in your desired location then that leads to even more frustration. Some investors get ticked off because they are constantly getting blasted with properties that do not match their criteria. Rather than compromise the quality of the investor's experience, I try to ask questions to get a better understanding. 

Even though I've been doing this for a while, I'm still open to learn. Is this a flawed approach?

Thanks for your input @Christopher Brainard. You bring up many valid points. 

 One of my goals by posting was to show other wholesalers that if they keep treating investors poorly, then they are having a negative impact on their clientele and peers. I also was curious to see if other folks had a similar experience. 

The night before I got that message, I was thinking that there has been quite the influx of wholesalers in the area, and because of the negative experience some buyers are having it is causing wholesalers to be viewed poorly. I was about to write a post discussing wholesaling etiquette. That changed slightly when coincidentally, and without provocation, someone contacted me the next morning with an apparent lack of trust for wholesalers. 

Once again, I did not solicit this person for business, yet they chose to express their negative feelings. I'm fine with someone wanting me to earn their business. My issue is with being prejudged after they were the one that reached out to me. If I am a person that is weary of used car dealerships, why walk on to a lot asking for service, only to be pugnacious when someone is trying to help?  I am always very flattered when a salesperson takes the time to know my needs as a consumer. To me it feels like they want to present a custom solution to my needs instead of trying shove me into something that isn't the right fit. 

As far as wearing my big boy pants and not running to BP to start a thread about my feelings being hurt, I find that amusing. The goal is to have a positive impact and I had to break a few eggs to make that omelet. In fact since I posted this, a few wholesalers and investors have reached out to me to tell me they  found my post helpful.

 I love investors, I am one myself. Thankfully wholesaling and the relationships formed by doing good business was one of the ways I was able to get into investing. The intention of the post isn't to pit wholesalers against investors. It is to create a dialogue and have the two sides understand each other. I'm not worried about trying to score points with people with $$$,  I'm advocating for wholesalers to treat investors well and visa versa. 

Thanks for the feedback @Bill Gulley and @Hugh Ayles, you both make excellent points. 

I appreciate your input @John Horner. The reason I took offense is because he is the one that initially contacted me. It's not like I was trying to push anything on him, or I was soliciting him for his business. He told me to send him "good deals" and I was trying to get clarification. It isn't my style to walk into someone's business and treat them as if they are guilty before proven innocent...and I couldn't understand why someone would respond in that manner based on my line of questioning. If I would've started pumping out what I believed were "good deals" over to him and they didn't meet his standards, then I would seem incompetent and like someone that was just trying to push anything on him. 

As far as "standard wholesalers" are concerned, I went on to elaborate in that same message about some of the other things I do besides wholesale. Then I wished him the best of luck and said we weren't a good fit to work together. I did not put that in the screenshot because I didn't want the post to be too long. 

Thanks for the feedback @Ryan Kopczyk...nice Kuzza shirt btw. Keep up the great work at Southeast...say hi to Hope for me!

@John Horner and @Ryan Kopczyk great answers! Just to put things in perspective, I am putting a modified screenshot of the convo I had with the person that motivated me to start this thread. I removed their picture and name from the message for the sake of not revealing their identity.  

This all started because a guy reached out to me and said he was looking for a "good deal". I simply asked for clarification and he went on to let me know how he felt about wholesalers.

Am I wrong for taking offense to his response, or was he being rude or abrasive for no reason at all?

See below...and let me know please

Thanks @Willie Smith @Account Closed for your insight and  feedback.

I get it...there are scumbags in every industry. In Orlando, I never went the guru route. I was a licensed realtor, that wanted to find a company that catered to investors and wound up finding a real estate company that was accredited by the BBB and happened to do wholesale deals. It was a small team of about 5 agents that closed about 30 to 40 deals a month. These were good people that were strong family men, and they were also investors themselves. At the time I was just happy to be around an environment where I could be around like minded people and actually start being around the things I had read about in the investing books. That was a few years ago...and since then I've come to realize folks enter the business in other ways.

Nonetheless it is kind of a weird cycle. Investors are an interesting bunch to sell to. Much like wholesalers, investors typically will beat up deals in order to get them at better prices. Sometimes when an investor is telling a wholesaler that their property isn't worth as much as they think it is, it is really a negotiation tactic. I know wholesalers that would always mark up deals because the investors they deal with will try to low ball them. Oh...and some were just scumbags also to be fair. 

Wholesalers inflate values, because of incompetence, greed, or to leave room for negotiation with investors. However, I just wanted to make sure people know that we are not all scumbags. 

Good wholesalers, operate in a similar capacity as financial advisers. They present deals to wealthy individuals who are too busy to do so themselves. Most investors have the ability to raise capital, the vision to flip properties, and the ability to manage their rehab crew. This leaves no time to analyze hundreds of deals on a daily basis. When I was aggressively wholesaling in the past, I would be in the office at 5 AM most days, and would do research to find the best deals in town. For every 100 deals I analyzed, only about 5 to 10 would make it to my investors. However, I'm not perfect and I always asked my investors to let me know if I made a mistake when analyzing a deal. My goal isn't to sell investors just any house, but to sell them the right house.  I'm not sure if that's how everyone else is doing it, but that is how I was taught.