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All Forum Posts by: Corey M.

Corey M. has started 30 posts and replied 106 times.

Post: 1st time BRRRR recommendations

Corey M.Posted
  • Posts 106
  • Votes 32
Originally posted by @Brian Ellwood:
Originally posted by @Corey M.:
Originally posted by @Brian Ellwood:

Hey Corey - the first step would be to consider if you have the time/want to put the time towards doing BRRRR. Then from there you can worry about market and team building. Focus everything on deciding between BRRR and turnkey for now.

If I did BRRR, my goal would be to put a great team in place so that the majority of my efforts would be on the front end (evaluating the deal, negotiating deal, etc). I definitely cannot be dealing with the day to day of overseeing a contractor. And I wouldn't know how to find a good deal in an OOS area since many cities vary in quality from neighborhood to neighborhood.

My goal would be to pay cash for my first property and be all-in for $100k, then refi. I want to start in that under $100k market just to learn before I start spending more.

It may even make sense to partner with someone, but I am hesitant to give money to random people. That always feels risky.

That skill can definitely be learned. I live in CO and buy in TN and AL and my involvement is limited to making buying decisions and overseeing an assistant and a project manager (only during a rehab). It's a 2 hour a week tops kind of job. 

If you learn that skill/set that up, you end up with nice chunks of equity, more cashflow, and a lot less of your own cash in each deal. 

If you don't, it's less work, but you end up with little equity and cashflow, and acquisitions are a lot more cash intensive.

 Hey Brian,
 Can you shed some light on how you found the right partners? Where to invest? A project manager who you could trust? These all seem fairly speculative if you don't know anyone OOS and are a first time investor.

Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Originally posted by @Ellie Perlman:

When investing in real estate in general, and multifamily in particular, selecting the right market is critical. I personally like multifamily because this asset class outperform all other asset classes. According to CBRE, “Over the past 25 years, multifamily investment has had the highest average returns of any commercial real estate asset class. The 9.8% average annual return is slightly ahead of industrial, and more than 100 basis points greater than office.” But, not all markets perform the same, and knowing which markets are performing well and still generating strong returns, even in a pandemic, is very important information to consider when committing to a potential investment. The reality is that we are now in a recession, and while 9.8% return might not be a realistic expectation in many markets these days, many markets are still capable of achieving solid returns.

Another factor to also pay close attention to is cap rates. Cap Rate indicates the investment risk and calculates what your return could be if you paid for it with 100% cash (no leverage or financing involved). Cap rates are used to value commercial properties in relation to other comparable properties (“comps”) in the area. As a rule of thumb, an attractive investment is to purchase a property with a higher cap rate than its comparable properties in the area, and sell it at a lower cap rate than the one you bought it for. The reason for this is because the lower the cap rate, the more the property will be worth.

Finally, above all else, is demand. Being aware of the percentage of renters within each market, as well as the number of competitors, including new development, is another key factor to take into consideration. After all, even if you get a great deal, without a stable tenant base, the property will not be profitable.

Here are the 2nd quarter of 2020 top 12 markets for US multifamily total returns:

12. Boston, MA

Annualized Total Return: 3.7%

2020 Average Cap Rates: 4.6% - 6.0%

Renter Percentage: 38.16%

11. Palm Beach, FL

Annualized Total Return: 4.0%

2020 Average Cap Rates: 4.6% - 6.0%

Renter Percentage: 30.52%

10. Seattle, WA

Annualized Total Return: 4.1%

2020 Average Cap Rates: 4.5% - 6.1%

Renter Percentage: 40.01%

9. Atlanta, GA

Annualized Total Return: 4.2%

2020 Average Cap Rates: 4.5% - 6.1%

Renter Percentage: 37.04%

8. Fort Lauderdale, FL

Annualized Total Return: 4.7%

2020 Average Cap Rates: 4.6% - 6.0%

Renter Percentage: 50%

7. Minneapolis, MN

Annualized Total Return: 5.0%

2020 Average Cap Rates: 4.5% - 6.1%

Renter Percentage: 28.43%

6. Tampa, FL

Annualized Total Return: 5.2%

2020 Average Cap Rates: 4.5% - 6.1%

Renter Percentage: 35.62%

5. Denver, CO

Annualized Total Return: 5.5%

2020 Average Cap Rates: 4.5% - 6.1%

Renter Percentage: 35.86%

4. Austin, TX

Annualized Total Return: 5.8%

2020 Average Cap Rates: 4.6% - 6.0%

Renter Percentage: 42.29%

3. Orlando, FL

Annualized Total Return: 6.8%

2020 Average Cap Rates: 4.5% - 6.1%

Renter Percentage: 40.68%

2. Charlotte, NC

Annualized Total Return: 6.9%

2020 Average Cap Rates: 4.5% - 6.1%

Renter Percentage: 47.10%

1. Phoenix, AZ

Annualized Total Return: 10.5%

2020 Average Cap Rates: 4.6% - 6.0%

Renter Percentage: 36.33%

Sources:

Newmark Knight Frank 2Q20 US Multifamily Markets Report

www.Apartmentloanstore.com

Department of Numbers

 

“Over the past 25 years, multifamily investment has had the highest average returns of any commercial real estate asset class. The 9.8% average annual return is slightly ahead of industrial, and more than 100 basis points greater than office.”

God I hope it's better than that. Over that same look backperiod, jan2005-aug2020, you could have just bought a total market index fund (VTSAX,VTI) and earned a CAGR of 9.35% with zero hassle, zero fuss. 

Total returns in mutifamily have to be significantly better than that for the average successful investor, or it's just not worth all the BS that comes with it. Is it possible the number of unsuccessful multifamily investors is being included and dragging that CBRE total average down? 

That cap rate isn't Roi. You're also getting depreciation, appreciation and mortgage paydown. Can't get that from an etf. 

Post: How to start in BRRRR

Corey M.Posted
  • Posts 106
  • Votes 32
Originally posted by @Curt Davis:
You would need to find a Realtor who has a lot of investor knowledge, who has contractor referrals, property management referrals, closing, insurance, and knows how to structure these deals all while it not being a conflict of interest for that Realtor.  There will be a lot of trust needed in order for this to work for you. BRRRR deals are hard enough to find bc everyone is looking for them.                

Good luck !!                                                        
It's hard to know who to trust. You're essentially trusting people via the internet with money who are out to make a profit for themselves, not for you. Not sure how I'd get a strong realtor in these OOS areas because everyone has a "great realtor." But not everyone has a great realtor with connections who knows how to find deals. So many people on here talk about BRRRR being the way to build wealth, but I am feeling a bit overwhelmed with just finding people who can actually help.

Post: How to start in BRRRR

Corey M.Posted
  • Posts 106
  • Votes 32

What is the best way to do OOS BRRRR when you have no experience, but can provide capital? It's all a little overwhelming - finding the right city, finding an agent who understands the investment market, finding a reliable contractor. It seems like a great way to invest, but every time I being up certain cities, people say they're already over saturated with investors.

Where are BRRRRs working for investors? And what's the best way to get started?

Post: OKC BRRRRs OOS investor

Corey M.Posted
  • Posts 106
  • Votes 32
Originally posted by @Micheal Briscoe:

@Corey M. I feel like this is almost a baited question. You came asking about BRRRR's and now your touting a turnkey company.

I had to google REI Invest to even see who they were. I know nothing of their #'s. I rarely trust anyone's purported cashflow #'s.

I can bet a lot of their success that they are having is due to their system, scale and marketing.  If your not generating your own leads (which I’m sure they are) then everyone else in the middle is eating your pie.  There used to be enough margin the buy off the mls or buy from a wholesaler and still make your $$$.  That’s not the case in today’s market. 

Wasn't meant to be baiting; was just curious how some are able to consistently squeeze money out of saturated markets. REI Nation (sorry, used wrong name in prior post) has a great reputation for meeting their numbers. But you're right, they do buy a lot of houses, so they probably have some inside sources that the average investor like me does not.

Where does one buy these days to do BRRRRs?

Post: OKC BRRRRs OOS investor

Corey M.Posted
  • Posts 106
  • Votes 32
Originally posted by @Micheal Briscoe:

Same same. It's ridiculously hot here. Anything that needs work is going for ARV-rehab. There's absolutely no margin that I'm finding. Wholesalers ARVs are way over optimistic.

How are turnkey companies like REI Nation buying under value and rehabbing if there aren't any deals to be hand. They seem to be finding deals and rehabbing at a fast clip, and their places cash flow.

Originally posted by @Alex Olson:
Originally posted by @Corey M.:

I live in CA where rents typically don't cover the price of a house/mortgage. I've lived in my place for 8 years and after a recent cash out refi, I pay about $2250/mo for my mortgage + taxes. If I rented it out, I could get about $3k per month. However, my expenses are another $750 or so (management, Capex, maintenence, insurance, eq insurance, hoa). Essentially I'd breakeven if I rented it. I'd also have to buy a new place at a cost of about $800k (160k down) @ 3% interest, and that new place would have all the typical tax breaks associated with a primary residence. Los Angeles property has been appreciating at about 8%/yr, and because of that, I'm trying to choose between renting out my residence and moving into a new one, or doing a passive investment in a turnkey. I have a f/t job and can't be active.

The turnkeys I've been looking at average about 18% IRR, and that includes appreciation, equity via house paydown, and net cash flow. Most of the places I'm looking at have about 2-3% annual appreciation. This IRR doesn't include depreciation.

So, with that $160k that I could use as a down payment on a new residence while renting out my current one, would it be better to do that or buy 800k worth of turnkeys with that $160k (~5 sfhs)?

My concern with renting my current house and buying a new one is that the cash flow could easily be negative on any given month AND I'd be taking on a new mortgage that is 50% higher than my current one. On the other hand, I'd be making LA level appreciation on both of them, which could be lucrative. 

Thoughts? 

I would take a simple approach. Look out of state for your investments. Read David Greene's book on out of state investing. It will help you jump start your process. You need a good local broker, a PM that knows the market and can help with rehab, and a lender. These will get you started. 

Totally get that. But how do you find all these people (other than a lender). It's not easy to vet a real estate agent, PM, and especially a contractor - who are notoriously unreliable. 

I feel a bit scared investing in a non-TK OOS since I wouldn't even know who to trust. At the same time, the idea of consistently recycling my capital is very appealing. 

Post: OKC BRRRRs OOS investor

Corey M.Posted
  • Posts 106
  • Votes 32

Looking to get into BRRRRs. Has anyone worked successfully from OOS with a team in OKC?

Are there solid B neighborhoods to invest in? 

Post: 1st time BRRRR recommendations

Corey M.Posted
  • Posts 106
  • Votes 32
Originally posted by @Brian Ellwood:

Hey Corey - the first step would be to consider if you have the time/want to put the time towards doing BRRRR. Then from there you can worry about market and team building. Focus everything on deciding between BRRR and turnkey for now.

If I did BRRR, my goal would be to put a great team in place so that the majority of my efforts would be on the front end (evaluating the deal, negotiating deal, etc). I definitely cannot be dealing with the day to day of overseeing a contractor. And I wouldn't know how to find a good deal in an OOS area since many cities vary in quality from neighborhood to neighborhood.

My goal would be to pay cash for my first property and be all-in for $100k, then refi. I want to start in that under $100k market just to learn before I start spending more.

It may even make sense to partner with someone, but I am hesitant to give money to random people. That always feels risky.

Post: 1st time BRRRR recommendations

Corey M.Posted
  • Posts 106
  • Votes 32

As a 1st time real estate investor, I am considering BRRRs vs turnkeys. I have a full time job, so I can't actively be involved in a day-to-day operation. 

For those who've done BRRRs, where is a great place to invest right now?

And more importantly, where do you find the core people that you can trust if you're investing OOS (real estate agent, contractor, PM, lender). I wouldn't even know where to start, but I do have some capital to invest. 

Would appreciate any advice.