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All Forum Posts by: Jeff Copeland

Jeff Copeland has started 14 posts and replied 1720 times.

Post: BRRRR Calculator using hard money

Jeff Copeland
Agent
Posted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Tampa Bay/St Petersburg, FL
  • Posts 1,836
  • Votes 2,065
Quote from @Daniel Reilly:

Hey @Jeff Copeland, how are you? I have a similar-ish question to @Alberto Leonard with respect to the BRRRR calculator. I have secured a private money line of credit but the terms on the purchase are a bit different from the rehab. Lender will provide 75% of the purchase price and 80% of the rehab (up to 100% based on a few other factors) but I don't see a way to input data with that granularity on the calculator. From what I can tell the calculator is assuming I am funding 100% of the rehab. My work around has been to add the cost of the rehab to the purchase price and enter that figure into the purchase price line. I've then been inputting $0 for the rehab line. The calculator then assumes the lender is providing 75% of that total figure (purchase price + rehab) vice the albeit small distinction between purchase and rehab noted above. Its at least a more conservative view, but this feels a bit janky and imprecise. Do you have any thoughts on how to better use the calculator? I feel like I'm missing something.

Hope you and your team stay safe with Hurricane Ian heading toward the St. Pete area this week.

Cheers,

Dan 


Hey Dan,

Thanka for the the well wishes. We definitely have our fingers crossed with regards to the Hurricane Ian. 

My response to the OP. wasn't specific to the calculator, but I'll PM you some info. 

Post: Clarification on the Refinancing Step in BRRRR

Jeff Copeland
Agent
Posted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Tampa Bay/St Petersburg, FL
  • Posts 1,836
  • Votes 2,065

Great questions!

1. Wouldn't this make you more in debt, why refinance when you could live off the cashflow? Why is the refinance step useful? it seems silly to get a mortgage on a property when you paid in cash in the first place.

If you don't need the cash, and you need the monthly cash flow, you are correct. No need to refinance. But there are a few more factors to consider here:

 - Often it isn't your cash, or isn't cash at all. It's very common to use hard money (short term, higher interest debt), as well as other types of debt (i.e. Home Depot Card, HELOC, or a credit card), and then refinance into long term, lower cost debt (and pay off these debts) once the asset is stabilized. 

- The underlying goal of the BRRRR Method is to build a larger portfolio of real estate. In the scenario you described, you ended up with only $2500 of your own cash tied up in a cash flowing, $150k asset! And you'd end up with $112,500 in your pocket to go do it again. 

- Now project this our for 30 years: Which investor is better off: 1) The one who left his cash in the deal and enjoyed the cash flow from one rental, or 2) The one who strategically refinanced their capital and purchased fifty rentals, then let the tenants pay off the mortgages?

2. How is it possible to refinance a property that you bought in cash? In my head this is the same as buying a car with cash then asking to have an auto loan. it makes no sense to me.

- This is very common. It's just called a cash-out refinance. By the way, banks do this on cars all the time. The asset is simply collateral for the loan. 

(Side note, there are generally two types of refinances: Rate/Term, and Cash Out. As the names imply a Cash Out is when you want to tap into your equity by pulling out cash, and a Rate/Term is when you want to keep the same loan balance, but refinance into a better rate or terms.)

3. Is there a certain type of loan you get when refinancing so that it will free up cash? I guess I am confused on the process of refinancing. Do you get the cash in hand from the loan you took out?

- It's simply a cash out refi, which creates a new mortgage. It's one of the most common loan origination types. 

- Yes. You get cash in hand, minus any closing costs (such as recording fees for the new mortgage, loan origination costs, impounds for taxes and insurance, and closing fees to the title company or attorney who closes the transaction), and minus any liens or mortgages on the property (see next point). 

- If you had a $75k hard money loan on the property, you'd have to pay that off (so that your new mortgage is in first position), so you'd only have $112,500 - $75,000 = $62,500 to cash out.

4. When you refinance do you get the money back in cash? I am confused on how this all works.

- Yes, subject to the conditions noted above, you get cold hard cash (normally in the form of a wire transfer) at closing, to do with what you please. Note also that there are no tax implications on this cash, because it it offset by a corresponding debt. In accounting parlance, it changes your balance sheet, not your income statement. 

5. Are there closing costs when you refinance?

- Yes, as noted above. This is always a factor when considering whether or when to refinance. For example, you wouldn't refi if you have only $10k in equity and the closing costs are $5k; The juice wouldn't be worth the squeeze.

6. How exactly is refinancing freeing up cash? You buy a property in cash and then you get a mortgage on it that you have to pay back. then you buy another property with this cash and refinance that property and now suddenly you have 2 mortgages. How is this beneficial? Can someone provide me a clear example to show the benefit of this and how it builds wealth?

- This builds wealth in several ways:

1. It frees up your (always limited) capital to buy more real estate. 

2. Debt Reduction: Your tenants pay off your mortgage debt. In 30 years, the balance of that $150k mortgage your tenants are paying off for you is zero

3. Appreciation: Your properties appreciate in the long term. In addition to the obvious benefit of making you richer, it also presents opportunities for future cash-out refinances to expand your portfolio even further. 

Example: In ten years if that $150k house is worth $250k, at that point you'd have $187k to play with at 75% LTV, and your mortgage balance would be something like $80k at that point, giving you an additional $100k to "withdraw" in a cash out refi, tax free.

4. Tax Savings: There are tons of tax advantages to owning real estate, so you can save thousands on income taxes each year. 

Post: Help w/ Weird NYC Pay Stubs / Bank Statements

Jeff Copeland
Agent
Posted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Tampa Bay/St Petersburg, FL
  • Posts 1,836
  • Votes 2,065

I have been burned by fake pay stubs before. They are frighteningly easy to obtain (google it). 

This is easily countered/confirmed by simply contacting the employer for an employment verification.

Post: Seeking Advice from Real Estate in Miami Fl

Jeff Copeland
Agent
Posted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Tampa Bay/St Petersburg, FL
  • Posts 1,836
  • Votes 2,065

You would still need to pay all of the customary closing costs (transfer tax, title insurance, tax prorations, and title company/attorney's fees, etc...Just no commission.

Everything is negotiable, but the following is the customary split between buyer and seller on a vacant land contract in Florida:

Post: Creative Financing with Neighbor's House

Jeff Copeland
Agent
Posted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Tampa Bay/St Petersburg, FL
  • Posts 1,836
  • Votes 2,065

Your post is blank (other than the title), so not sure exactly what your question is. But here's some info on seller financing: 

https://www.biggerpockets.com/...

Post: Screening Multifamily deals

Jeff Copeland
Agent
Posted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Tampa Bay/St Petersburg, FL
  • Posts 1,836
  • Votes 2,065

Just sent you a PM.

Post: New to BP looking to build connections

Jeff Copeland
Agent
Posted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Tampa Bay/St Petersburg, FL
  • Posts 1,836
  • Votes 2,065

We're not in Ocala, but a couple hours away in St Petersburg. 

Welcome, you'll find this community a great resource! Be sure to check out the Bigger Pockets bookstore and podcast

I won't post external links here in the forums, but we also have tons of free educational info specific to Florida real estate investors on our own website, podcast, and youtube channel (and we aren't hard to find). Let me know if you have any questions!

Post: How to get property owner info online affordably

Jeff Copeland
Agent
Posted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Tampa Bay/St Petersburg, FL
  • Posts 1,836
  • Votes 2,065

This information (at least a name and current mailing address) is usually available for free via the County property appraiser or property assessor website. 

For example: https://propertyinquiryportal....

Post: BRRRR or Conventional in Orange County

Jeff Copeland
Agent
Posted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Tampa Bay/St Petersburg, FL
  • Posts 1,836
  • Votes 2,065

A very important consideration right now is the term

How long do you lock/fix 7.7 on the non-QM product? That sounds high, but even conventional QM loans right now are in the mid to high 6's in some cases. 

Unfortunately, 7.7% may sound great a couple of years from now!

The bridge is presumably only for a year or two. My concern there would be having to refi out of that balloon in a year or two at 8 or 9% +.

If you can afford it, you may want to lock in the longest fixed term you can. 

Post: Tenant left owing over 10k and can't be found

Jeff Copeland
Agent
Posted
  • Real Estate Agent
  • Tampa Bay/St Petersburg, FL
  • Posts 1,836
  • Votes 2,065

We don't know enough about the situation to say whether your PM has any blame here. Was there an eviction? Did your PM start that process at the appropriate time? Did it linger in the court system for 9 months? Or did your PM just let it ride for 10 months and leave you hanging? Not enough info. 

But it really doesn't matter. You could spend another $10k suing the tenant and win a $1M judgement against them, but you are still unlikely to ever collect a dime from them. Here is a great video on this topic: Episode 48: Collections and The Property Manager - Evict TV

Let it go and chalk this up to an expensive lesson learned. 

The "my PM won't give me their social security number {or credit report)" issue is very common. 

Under federal law, they can't (or at least shouldn't) without exposing themselves to significant liability). 

(And it's often true that they actually don't have it anymore. Many software systems XXXX out the SSN or delete it after a certain amount of time as a safeguard against FCRA violations and identity theft).

This legal article is a must read on the subject: https://evict.com/releasing-cr...).

Some key points:

- At issue here is a federal law called the Fair Credit Reporting Act (so this applies in any US state or territory and does not vary from market to market).

- Under the FCRA, your PM is a "Credit Reporting Agency" and as such they cannot (or at least should not) share credit reports, SSN, or other PII with you or anyone else without exposing themselves to significant liability. 

Per the article above "A debtor (resident or applicant) can sue for a violation of the FCRA, as can the Justice Department. Damages are awarded, even if there’s been no harm done to the debtor! Add attorney fees and court costs to that, and one has a very unhappy property manager."

- A tenant cannot waive their rights under the FCRA and "sign a release" to share their report with you or anyone else.

- Again quoting the article: "...the fact that the owner hired you as his agent and you obtained the report in that capacity of agent does not change any of the advice above."

In addition to the FCRA, the other major risk is identity theft.

In order to even be permitted to run credit reports, my PM company had to go through a physical site visit from a representative of the credit bureau to ensure we have physical (locking filing cabinets, etc), electronic (password protected computer lock screens, etc), and procedural (written policies) safeguards in place specifically to prevent the release of SSNs and other personally identifiable information (PII).

So legally the PM cannot and should not share a tenant's SSN with you.

Note: I have no affiliation with the Law Office referenced in the above links. Just sharing pertinent info.