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All Forum Posts by: Gretchen Roberts

Gretchen Roberts has started 7 posts and replied 53 times.

Post: Apartment building appreciation: rule of thumb?

Gretchen RobertsPosted
  • Investor
  • Knoxville, TN
  • Posts 54
  • Votes 18

Guys, this is fantastic info. I think I'm learning a lot reading a book and then I come on here and get gold. 

@Jon Holdman Love the idea of doing scenarios and that makes a lot more sense given all the variables. So I could run scenarios and then do actuals every year. 

@Joel Owens I've been reading Frank Gallinelli's books and he says IRR is the most important metric because it's NOT subjective. Well, which is it? :)

Post: Apartment building appreciation: rule of thumb?

Gretchen RobertsPosted
  • Investor
  • Knoxville, TN
  • Posts 54
  • Votes 18
Originally posted by @Jon Holdman:

@Gretchen Roberts sorry, but the cash flow doesn't factor into the value at all. NOI does. NOI is before debt service. Your debt and debt service payments, as well as the debt and debt service payments of a potential buyer are irrelevant to setting a value for the property. NOI and CAP rates are all computed without any consideration of debt service.

Prevailing CAP rates, such as they are, can change over time. They are somewhat tied to the quality of the area and the asset. A better asset in a better area will have a lower cap rate than a poor quality asset or a poor quality area. So, if the area improves, cap rates go down and vice versa. Similar for the asset. But cap rates are also affected by demand. Investment properties are just a commodity, like any other investment. If investor demand for such properties is high then values will tend to rise. If everything else remains the same, that means cap rates fall. That's why you see very low cap rates, 4-5%, for quality NNN properties in hot markets like CA.

I do understand that and am not being clear I think. The thing I'm trying to solve is the IRR at different holding periods. So working backwards, in order to calculate the IRR at say the 10-year mark, you have to account for the initial cash investment, then the cashflows in years 1-10, and finally the cash you receive from the sale.

So in order to calculate the cash I'd receive from the sale, I was trying to figure out how to calculate what the sale price could be in year 10 based on the projected NOI and cap rate. The reference I made to the mortgage was only to figure out what the cash from the sale would be, not for NOI.

Now that I'm learning cap rates can change over time, I wonder how it's even possible to calculate an IRR without a lot of guesstimates/projections on what you think the NOI will be and the cap rate, which are both to an extent based on market conditions. But isn't IRR supposed to be the best metric for an investment?

Post: Apartment building appreciation: rule of thumb?

Gretchen RobertsPosted
  • Investor
  • Knoxville, TN
  • Posts 54
  • Votes 18

@Jon Klaus Do cap rates generally stay steady over time in a given area and class? 

Post: Apartment building appreciation: rule of thumb?

Gretchen RobertsPosted
  • Investor
  • Knoxville, TN
  • Posts 54
  • Votes 18

@Jon Holdman Sorry, I meant to calculate the cash inflow in the year of sale for IRR.

Post: Apartment building appreciation: rule of thumb?

Gretchen RobertsPosted
  • Investor
  • Knoxville, TN
  • Posts 54
  • Votes 18

Thank you guys! I am all about logic and this, I understand. In calculating the IRR, then, to calculate the sale price at any time the answer would be the building's value based on NOI and cap rate at that time minus the remaining mortgage payoff?

In other words, no appreciation at all (unless it's forced, bringing rents up, which brings up value)?

Post: Apartment building appreciation: rule of thumb?

Gretchen RobertsPosted
  • Investor
  • Knoxville, TN
  • Posts 54
  • Votes 18

Do apartment buildings appreciate in the same way single-family homes do, only at a lower percentage, or is the value of the building at the time of sale based solely on NOI and cap rate?

I'm working on a long-term buy and hold analysis spreadsheet and am not sure how to account for the building value at any given time in the forecasts. 

Post: Newbie in Maryville, tennessee

Gretchen RobertsPosted
  • Investor
  • Knoxville, TN
  • Posts 54
  • Votes 18

Hi Joy, welcome to BP! I'm also from Mrvl. It's a beautiful place. 

Post: Multifamily Expenses

Gretchen RobertsPosted
  • Investor
  • Knoxville, TN
  • Posts 54
  • Votes 18

@Gautam Shah Great list, thanks! 

So this is really interesting, and makes me wonder what is on MLS that you can't get on Zillow and Trulia and Redfin exactly? People talk about having or needing access to the MLS, which makes me think that these programs are only able to pull some of the feed instead of all of it.

Post: Capital expenses and NOI

Gretchen RobertsPosted
  • Investor
  • Knoxville, TN
  • Posts 54
  • Votes 18

I did call the person who seems like the top commercial broker around here, and she gave me the cap rates. They seem reasonable based on what I know of this market. 6-7% for the swanky quadrant of town, 7-8 for the B side of town, 8-9 for the C side, and 10+ for the war zone. 

Kind of using that in a balance with the NOI/asking price to figure out what a good offer should be. The most fascinating thing so far is that you can change a single projection and everything moves...in your favor or the seller's.

Who said math was boring? :) 

And--you guys are awesome! I appreciate all this help and advice on a Saturday.