All Forum Posts by: Greg Purvis

You can view last years results for some/most WA counties, and finding previous years wouldn't take too much digging either. As others suggest, 75-90% of anything initially "interesting" typically gets paid off on the last day before auction. Most of the properties that do make it to auction are marginal at best, for WA counties maybe 1-3 on average with any kind of structure, and a handful of others. The vast majority have no to very little real-life use/value, other than niche/"recreational"/neighbors/holding/etc

With a little experience you may be able to pretty well guess which of the initially promising parcels might actually make it to auction - they will have a complicated title report/history, signs of complex liens or county issues, or owners who are truly hard or impossible to track down.

Bid for assets has developed a nice little "scam" - for lack of a better term- where they require the deposit (and charge their ~$35 fee) well in advance of the last day owners have to pay off back taxes. Inexperienced bidders therefore get their hopes up researching properties that aren't actually going to be sold - and in the competitive auction spirit, wanting to not go home empty handed... they end up bidding up the prices on whatever leftover scraps do make it through to auction. 

Even if the self storage option is a no-go, perhaps agricultural or forestry zoning/classification would still allow a metal pole/shop building, which- like the camper idea- can (location depending of course) rent out surprisingly well for storage, hobbies, or even business/es.

I'm not very familiar with the gulf coast, & Alabama has a funny bee law (no migratory/commercial beekeepers, basically) but if you were on the Florida side of the border- with a similar piece of property, you might well consider commercial beekeepers. Sure, the "rent" for a normal "bee yard" , a location for say 40-60 hives - is much more likely to be a couple gallons of honey in trade than cash. But many migratory east coast beekeepers move their bees to Florida for winter, the whole state is packed.. A large (preferably gravel) holding/staging yard where they can load/unload semi trucks with forklifts & place 400-600 (or many more) hives on pallets- COULD certainly be of significant value, depending on location, forage/plants, & other beekeepers already established in the surrounding 2-3 sq miles, etc etc.

All the ideas above are solid, in your shoes I'd pick a good local motivated agent who will market it to investors as-is.

But to share another perspective, I've seen anything 'of significant value' that does actually go to auction in WA - especially with a structure- of any type- go for (honestly) quite close to the mls/fair market price, and some- (when the full range of issues/challenges & unknowns about structure/condition were taken into account)- likely went for more via county auction..

This is just my personal observation bookmarking, watching auctions, and doing significant title/etc research with the intent to bid/buy in some cases- across western WA (Specifically the last 3-5 years). Before that I felt like I did see a few 'deals' (significantly below market) sneak through at WA county tax auctions..too bad the good old days of in person auctions are gone. There might/will still be oddballs that don't get bid up as much of course, but those lower valued properties are very marginal at best as far as ANY practical real world 'use' goes.

The extended bidding format (of **********) and hype among (in some cases) new/inexperienced 'investors' - really does seem to bring the sold prices close to fair market. Considering buyers are only going off what they can see from the street/etc in most cases- it's surprised me to see the high sold auction prices of the few 'good'/promising looking properties (like this one) that do make it to auction with ANY kind of residential/structure on them.

I don't know how much any current market cooling off/economic uncertainty might affect things this year,  but as a buyer I wouldn't count on a valuable property at county auction (with issues as described) going cheap.

mls listing now active for those curious like I was, easy enough to find the address via public record 

I have little knowledge of Michigan so this will be general not exact info. Your initial inquiry to the county may not have been clear enough. Keep in mind each county's process is different.

-I believe what you're looking for may be a list of properties with 3 years of unpaid taxes. "pre tax foreclosure" In other words you'd be asking for a list of those who didn't pay their 2019(?) taxes. I'd think you want to be clear on inquiring if that is available, specifically.

-You could also obtain this same info using 'aftermarket' subscription or pay per lead services like list source and many others, I believe.

-Prior to the county actually foreclosing on the property in spring, they will/may/likely also have to publish this list in local newspaper/s (I believe), and go through a court process - which will be public record. This is all in advance of the foreclosure date and may likely be accessible free.

Keep in mind a good 2/3 will pay off the back taxes at the last minute before foreclosure (doesn't mean they're not still a good candidate to sell).  Please check up on this strategy legally as in some cases contacting owners "in bulk" pre tax foreclosure can be viewed as predatory/illegal.

I know each state (perhaps county) is different, so this is specific to tax deed states like WA and not tax liens or other foreclosures. I'm especially curious for input from anyone who has experience negotiating deals on properties with unpaid taxes IMMEDIATELY before tax sale. The lists of tax sale properties scheduled for auction are available months in advance and unpaid taxes are public record and available from 3rd party tools such as listsource, and commonly used by investors sending sending yellow letters/etc..but I'm most interested in the experiences and advice from investors who have been successful negotiating deals at the last minute..in the days or weeks right before county tax auction.

I've been going to WA state county tax sales on and off for awhile... With most counties in this area having switched from in person auctions to bidforassets online platform, in recent years I'm having a harder time finding great/amazing "deals" on the few (typically low end price wise and marginally "usable") properties up for tax sale that interest me after all the preliminary research is done. 

I'll try to leave out discussing my gripes about bidforassets (non-refundable deposit fees, overtime/extended bidding hiking up prices) because it seems the site is here to stay.. For those who haven't used the site, it is legitimate (at least for county tax sales) and not as misleading or scammy as some foreclosure type sites like auctions.com, but buyer beware/do your own research of course applies.

The most promising deals (especially if they have a house in any condition, as opposed to bare land) obviously get some attention from other investors - so if there is significant equity & the owners/heirs are easy to locate - they typically don't make it to the county tax auction.

Of course some of these (more attractive or single family) properties will go to auction anyway- either because the $ amount of various liens (most are cleared after county tax sale- do your own research in your state) is higher than the value or the owner/s heirs are too hard to locate.. And of course if it does go to tax sale the owners or lien holders can request from the county any $ additional to the initial bid/unpaid tax amount - BUT owners do not necessarily know this fact.

My experience: typically I'll spend quite a bit of time doing my own initial search/investigation of all the parcels... add a deposit ~$1000-2000 to allow me to bid in the bidforassets auction, spend more time with title/feasibility/etc research on 1 or 2 that really interest me in the week prior to the auction... but the last day before the sale the properties that interest me frequently get paid off. If I bookmark the APN's and check back it's about a 20-80 split of someone negotiating a sale pre-tax sale and original owners paying off taxes last minute.  So I'm finding while I enjoy the research/etc, it's harder and harder to justify competing with others on the bidforassets platform.

I feel like there is some significant potential for investors to reach out to owners and try to negotiate a deal (better price when all is said & done) vs if the property had gone to tax sale ....especially on some of the marginal properties (unbuildable, recreational, wetlands or critical areas challenges, and so on) that are too low in value to attract mainstream investors. 

I'm interested in anyone's thoughts on optimal TIMING to reach out to owners... prior to the sale.   

example 1: 40k assessed value lot/land, single owner, no liens, looks like you may be able to track owner down and they may live locally

example 2: 40k assessed lot/land, multiple owners or deceased, multiple liens such as DSHS, homeowners association, etc that you will have to research/negotiate

example 3: 160k assessed house, mutiple deceased owners, heirs appear to be out of state, small old home equity lien (you can view the initial amount of loan by searching recorded documents or title report, but wouldn't know the current amount remaining or settlement without contacting owners/heirs/etc), multiple DSHS, contractors, and other liens

If you were reaching out to owners in the above scenarios, and wanted to wait until the last minute (for better chance of a deal), how long before the deadline/last day to pay off taxes would you contact the owner? Have you had better luck in these types of scenarios making contact via mail or phone?

any thoughts or input greatly appreciated!  "bidforassets" used instead of "**********" due to forum

Thanks for the replies. I am putting them on their own land in rural areas where it is permitted to do so.

I am aware of most/all of the issues brought up; but still searching.. I am curious if anyone is willing to share any sites/ marketplaces where "homes to be moved" often get posted, or where you have, perhaps, found deals in your area.

I am also aware of the other potential "headache" that hasn't been brought up yet- (higher/"harder to obtain" homeowners insurance for manufactured homes that have been moved more than once). Not sure how or if that applies in parks.

It seems the consensus is to either not try it or keep expanding my search radius.

Certainly I'm well aware that the challenges of inspection, likelyhood of damage, etc go up with distance. And that cheap doesn't equal deals-hense mention that most of the time when I do the math it would typically make much more sense to buy new.

But I am still curious if anyone has insight into my original question. Have you noticed any parts of the country where deals can be more reasily found on used!? (5-15 year old) homes? 

I've noticed with new manufactured homes some significant regional price differences. As well as price differences of what gets listed used on the mls. I have heard 3rd hand of park owners shipping new homes cross country when they were able to get a deal & trying to fill spaces. So I think that it's at least worth looking into the option of doing it with used mobile homes. I bet someone out there is doing it...

Let's say $4.50-6 (low end quotes on smaller singlewide) per mile on top of the typical hookup & setup etc costs.

1000miles $4500-6000 extra (vs local  <100 mile move)

1500miles $6750-9000 extra

2000miles $9000-12000 extra

Add ~ $1000 to that to be safe..for any additional inspection, trip permit, tires, trucker hotel room, etc costs.

Based on the seemingly inflated prices of used mobile homes here I do think there may be areas of the country where prices on average might be $5500-13000 less than what I see in my area.

I am in the market for used smaller singlewide or perhaps park model home/s in decent condition, fixers ok, under 15-20 years old, cheap, to be moved off site. Can be in park-(not always allowed to move), sitting on dealer lot, or on private land. Temporary worker housing situations etc seem like an ideal candidate for what I am searching for.

I have looked into quotes for transport and even a 1500-2000 mile move might make sense given the prices of the lower end mobile home market in the Northwest & on most of the West coast. (This has to do with housing availability and prices of anything lower end in general on the market here).

I've talked to a lot of the regional dealers & mobile home lots, etc, and for anything "newer" worth fixing up, they always want too much- it would typically make more sense to go with a budget new singlewide than to pay the price they are asking for the (equivalent) used ones. 

The strategy of talking to movers, park managers, etc & scouring Facebook marketplace (craigslist use seems to be dying off) locally could / does eventually pay off, but again I am wondering if I can find better deals by broadening my search.

I wonder if anyone has insight as to where in the country real deals (sub 10k? 15k? Etc) might be able to be found regularly on "newer" used mobIle homes, or sites/auctions/etc where park closing or temporary housing get listed.

Thanks for your input