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All Forum Posts by: Jerry K.

Jerry K. has started 51 posts and replied 683 times.

Post: Beginner Tax Lien Questions

Jerry K.Posted
  • Specialist
  • Phoenix, AZ
  • Posts 697
  • Votes 620

@Juan Santos The answers to your questions depend on the specific state and county or city you are investing in. Different jurisdictions have different ways you bid on a lien/certificate. Most include the amount of the taxes in your bid, but some do have a premium you bid and then you owe the taxes. Most certificates are assignable - meaning you can sell them to a third party. You have to check the statutes for the area you are investing. Lastly, you usually get the proceeds from the redemption within weeks of it getting paid off. You have to check the office that handles the redemption for the area you are investing.  There are no blanket rules for tax liens - they are all dependent on the statutes of the state/county/city.

Post: Recording Tax Lien Certificates

Jerry K.Posted
  • Specialist
  • Phoenix, AZ
  • Posts 697
  • Votes 620

@Account Closed, had never had to record a tax lien. This is a great example of how fragmented the tax lien business can be for investors, and how you have to read and understand the statutes of the state, county, and sometimes city for where you invest. Keep sharing what you learn!

Post: Recording Tax Lien Certificates

Jerry K.Posted
  • Specialist
  • Phoenix, AZ
  • Posts 697
  • Votes 620

@An I don't invest in states where you have to record the tax lien, but I would recommend getting to know the statutes on it very well. Either Google the state tax lien statutes, which will spell out the process, or take a tax lien attorney out for breakfast and discuss the topic.

Post: Tax Liens AZ

Jerry K.Posted
  • Specialist
  • Phoenix, AZ
  • Posts 697
  • Votes 620

@Account Closed - It depends on the county. Most of the time it is the county recorder, but it can also be part of a county assessor or even the county clerk. The best thing to do is call the county office and ask what department handles recording mortgages and then ask that department if they are available online - and what information you need to search for one.

Post: Running into a property owner while scoping a tax lien parcel

Jerry K.Posted
  • Specialist
  • Phoenix, AZ
  • Posts 697
  • Votes 620

@Jay Hinrichs Good question that I never looked up - until you just asked. This is from the statute "197.432 Sale of tax certificates for unpaid taxes" See section (14):

(13) The holder of a tax certificate may not directly, through an agent, or otherwise initiate contact with the owner of property upon which he or she holds a tax certificate to encourage or demand payment until 2 years after April 1 of the year of issuance of the tax certificate.

(14) Any holder of a tax certificate who, prior to the date 2 years after April 1 of the year of issuance of the tax certificate, initiates, or whose agent initiates, contact with the property owner upon which he or she holds a certificate encouraging or demanding payment may be barred by the tax collector from bidding at a tax certificate sale. Unfair or deceptive contact by the holder of a tax certificate to a property owner to obtain payment is an unfair and deceptive trade practice, as referenced in s. 501.204(1), regardless of whether the tax certificate is redeemed. Such unfair or deceptive contact is actionable under ss. 501.2075-501.211. If the property owner later redeems the certificate in reliance on the deceptive or unfair practice, the unfair or deceptive contact is actionable under applicable laws prohibiting fraud.

501.2075 says that the civil penalty for violating: ...is liable for a civil penalty of not more than $10,000 for each such violation. Willful violations occur when the person knew or should have known that his or her conduct was unfair or deceptive or prohibited by rule. This civil penalty may be recovered in any action brought under this part by the enforcing authority; or the enforcing authority may terminate any investigation or action upon agreement by the person, firm, corporation, association, or entity, or the agent or employee of the foregoing, to pay a stipulated civil penalty. The department or the court may waive any such civil penalty if the person, firm, corporation, association, or entity, or the agent or employee of the foregoing, has previously made full restitution or reimbursement or has paid actual damages to the consumers or governmental entities who have been injured by the unlawful act or practice or rule violation. If civil penalties are assessed in any litigation, the enforcing authority is entitled to reasonable attorney’s fees and costs. A civil penalty so collected shall accrue to the state and shall be deposited as received into the General Revenue Fund unallocated.

501.211 says:  Other individual remedies.—

(1) Without regard to any other remedy or relief to which a person is entitled, anyone aggrieved by a violation of this part may bring an action to obtain a declaratory judgment that an act or practice violates this part and to enjoin a person who has violated, is violating, or is otherwise likely to violate this part.

(2) In any action brought by a person who has suffered a loss as a result of a violation of this part, such person may recover actual damages, plus attorney’s fees and court costs as provided in s. 501.2105. However, damages, fees, or costs are not recoverable under this section against a retailer who has, in good faith, engaged in the dissemination of claims of a manufacturer or wholesaler without actual knowledge that it violated this part.

(3) In any action brought under this section, upon motion of the party against whom such action is filed alleging that the action is frivolous, without legal or factual merit, or brought for the purpose of harassment, the court may, after hearing evidence as to the necessity therefor, require the party instituting the action to post a bond in the amount which the court finds reasonable to indemnify the defendant for any damages incurred, including reasonable attorney’s fees. This subsection shall not apply to any action initiated by the enforcing authority.

Post: Running into a property owner while scoping a tax lien parcel

Jerry K.Posted
  • Specialist
  • Phoenix, AZ
  • Posts 697
  • Votes 620

@Account Closed You're fine talking them before the tax lien auction. Check the state statutes to see if you can talk to them after you own the lien. In Florida (you mentioned you recently bought FL liens) - you are not allowed to talk, contact or have an agent of yours make contact if you own the lien. Other investors can contact them, and many do once a tax lien has been sold on a property - but the actual tax lien/certificate holder in Florida can not contact the owner per the statutes.

Post: 2019 Pinal County Arizona Tax Lien Auction Results

Jerry K.Posted
  • Specialist
  • Phoenix, AZ
  • Posts 697
  • Votes 620

The 2019 online tax lien auction for Pinal County in northern AZ ended in February and here are some unofficial results. Results can change if investors do not make their final payments for their lien purchases. Previous year results are there for comparison.

Average winning interest rates inched slightly higher compared to the last year, and the number of winning investors was 88 compares to 89 the previous year.

I eliminated the "Struck to County" liens which are the liens nobody bid on and are now held by the county. There were 5,148 liens that were struck to the county. A total of $2,959,747.71 in liens not sold.

Number of liens sold to investors:

2019 - 2,253
2018 - 2,270
2017 - 2,505
2016 - 2,301
2015 - 2,713
2014 - 4,931
2013 - 4,340

Total dollar of liens sold:

2019 - $2,580,629.21
2018 - $2,596,947.21
2017 - $2,943,103.63
2016 - $2,549,429.59
2015 - $2,620,894.70
2014 - $6,831,424.55
2013 - $6,791,144.22

Average rate of return overall:

2019 - 4.55% (10.67% if you include the Struck to County which all get 16%)
2018 - 4.36% (10.37% if you include the Struck to County which all get 16%)
2017 - 5.84% (10.73% if you include the Struck to County which all get 16%)
2016 - 5.33% (10.74% if you include the Struck to County which all get 16%)
2015 - 4.25% (9.62% if you include the Struck to County which all get 16%)
2014 - 8.38% (11.14% if you include the Struck to County which all get 16%)
2013 - 9.86%

Number of Investors who won liens:

2019 - 88
2018 - 89
2017 - 81
2016 - 68
2015 - 64
2014 - 99
2013 - 199

Total Number of bids for all liens:

2019 - 15,143
2018 - 15,626
2017 - 11,220
2016 - 11,325
2015 - 15,166
2014 - 20,802
2013 - 48,418

You bid down the interest rate in 1% increments from 16% down to 0%.
Rate that had the most number of bids overall:

2019 - 5% 2,577 bids
2018 - 5% 4,167 bids
2017 - 5% 2,584 bids
2016 - 6% 1,601 bids
2015 - 4% 3,282 bids
2014 - 5% 5,543 bids
2013 - 7% 20,191 bids

Most bids per lien/parcel:

2019 - One lien had 21 bids
2018 - Two liens had 24 bids
2017 - One lien had 21 bids
2016 - Two liens had 17 bids
2015 - Two liens had 23 bids
2014 - Four liens had 24 bids
2013 - Two liens each had 179 bids

Results by Property Use Type minus the Struck to County (click on image to make larger):

Link to table

Post: Tax Lien Redeemed! Why is it the same amount I bought it for?

Jerry K.Posted
  • Specialist
  • Phoenix, AZ
  • Posts 697
  • Votes 620

@Account Closed Happened to me in Arizona right after an auction this year. I landed two vacant land liens for 16% but received a check a couple of weeks later for my original purchase amount. The people paid the day of the online auction.

Here is a link to the statutes related to Florida Tax liens;

https://www.pbctax.com/content/florida-statutes-chapter-197-tax-collections-sales-and-liens

Statute 197.432 lays out the rules for a sale and cancellation. Also 197.433 gives further details on cancellations.

The statute that deals with OTC liens is 197.4725      http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0100-0199/0197/Sections/0197.4725.html 

I'm glad you posted your question. It made me re-read the FL statutes and I found I was wrong about OTC Florida tax liens; I somehow had read years ago that OTC liens were not eligible for the 5% premium. But in researching the statutes for you I found this in Section (2) of 197.472 Redemption of tax certificates:

(2) When a tax certificate is redeemed and the interest earned on the tax certificate is less than 5 percent of the face amount of the certificate, a mandatory minimum interest of an absolute 5 percent shall be levied upon the face value of the tax certificate. The person redeeming the tax certificate shall pay the interest rate due on the certificate or the 5 percent mandatory minimum interest, whichever is greater. This subsection applies to all county-held tax certificates and all individual tax certificates except those with an interest rate bid of zero percent.

Thanks for asking your question and I may now scour some OTC liens in Florida when I have some time.

Post: Shelby County Alabama New Tax Lien Auction Procedure

Jerry K.Posted
  • Specialist
  • Phoenix, AZ
  • Posts 697
  • Votes 620

@Denise Evans Thanks for posting. It's tough to get that type of information from a live bid auction! Did they provide a file with the winning bids at the end or did you have to jot it all down?

I invest in Arizona tax liens that have the auctions online. They provide a file with winning bids, winner's name etc. I then go back and get all the bids that were placed and at what interest rate so I can determine which liens had the most bids, what type of property, etc. It gives me information on who the bidders are, what they bid, what types of properties, all to help me in the next year auction.

People bidding zero percent - I've done it a couple of times. Only when I knew the owners were deceased and the property was decent. Both times I won the lien, the properties were eventually sold before the lien redemption period came up. I received my initial investment back, but no interest. Strictly a roll of the dice and I rarely do it.

In the online auctions if you have the lowest interest rate bid but the next lowest bid above yours is several percentage points higher, the software awards you the interest rate right below the next lowest bid. For example, if you bid 3% (lowest bid of anybody) and the next lowest bid was 8%, you would actually get 7% interest. The bidding is blind and you put in the lowest interest you would accept. The bidding for hundreds of liens all end at the same time so you don't know if you won any until the bidding time ends.

I know some investors who bid 1% on some liens knowing there would be people bidding 0% expecting to get a higher rate. The 0% bidders may be surprised to find somebody bid 1% which means they actually will get the lien at 0%. You win with 0% a couple of times and you stop bidding 0%.

However, in Florida, you can bid down to 0% in 1/4% increments. If you bid 0% and win, then you actually get 0% interest. If you bid 0.25% interest (or higher) and win, then you get a minimum penalty rate of 5% interest when it is redeemed. So many institutions automatically bid 0.25% interest on everything knowing they will get the 5% rate if they win.

Post: Arizona tax liens foreclosing

Jerry K.Posted
  • Specialist
  • Phoenix, AZ
  • Posts 697
  • Votes 620

@Karen D. Schiano - sorry, been off line for a couple of days. I'll track a letter down. I have had so few liens get to foreclosure that I have not had anyone reach out to sell the property. They only have redeemed the lien once the Intent to Foreclose was sent. I have sold liens to other investors where I did know the property owners had passed away. These were vacant residential lots that were worth about the same as the amount I had paid in liens plus what attorney costs would have been to foreclose. The buyers lived next to the parcels and bought the liens so they could foreclose and add the land to their property.

The other reason I like using an attorney for the foreclosure was I paid them to send the Letter of Intent to Foreclose. They have paralegals who do what is legally necessary to try and track down all relatives and other known lien holders to send the letter. This way if I was to win the foreclosure and somebody later popped up to claim they were never notified, the attorney can back up they did the correct research and notification.