Skip to content
×
PRO
Pro Members Get Full Access!
Get off the sidelines and take action in real estate investing with BiggerPockets Pro. Our comprehensive suite of tools and resources minimize mistakes, support informed decisions, and propel you to success.
Advanced networking features
Market and Deal Finder tools
Property analysis calculators
Landlord Command Center
$0
TODAY
$69.00/month when billed monthly.
$32.50/month when billed annually.
7 day free trial. Cancel anytime
Already a Pro Member? Sign in here
Pick markets, find deals, analyze and manage properties. Try BiggerPockets PRO.
x
All Forum Categories
All Forum Categories
Followed Discussions
Followed Categories
Followed People
Followed Locations
Market News & Data
General Info
Real Estate Strategies
Landlording & Rental Properties
Real Estate Professionals
Financial, Tax, & Legal
Real Estate Classifieds
Reviews & Feedback

All Forum Posts by: Gabe Goudreau

Gabe Goudreau has started 18 posts and replied 28 times.

Quote from @Matthew Drouin:

@Gabe Goudreau how big of a deal are we talking about here?  One of my clients had a $1M deal under contract where they needed to do a $300k raise.  A syndication was way overkill because there were only 5 capital partners so they customized an operating agreement with their attorney that outlined roles and responsibilities, distributions, membership interests, etc.

And you don't have to have all this stuff figured out right now; it's very customary for us to assign the contract to whatever customized entity we end up forming.

Just one caveat.  Make sure you know where the guard rails are with your bank.  If you give someone over 19% membership interest in the deal, the bank will usually require a personal guarantee from that individual.  If they are the one providing most of the cash, they might not want to carry that liability, but you've already negotiated with your partners on this and then the bank isn't cool with it, you could be in a pickle.

Thanks for the advice ! @Matthew Drouin

The one I'm looking at right now is a smaller 8-unit project - only around a $100-125k equity raise + loan guarantee. Not a ton of value-add opportunity, more of a core+ investment in a very small market I'm familiar with - my initial analysis is yielding a 14% IRR & 1.28 EM, so I'm not sure of the attractiveness to investors. I still need to do a deeper dive, but the ownership structure was one of the external factors that I was thinking about.

Very helpful, thank you all! 

Hello, 

I have a few questions about acquiring projects with different partnership structures. 

I know a common practice (at least for syndications), is to create a separate LLC for the property and then raise capital once the deal is already under contract. How does everyone go about getting the property under contract before that? Do most people get the property under contract in a single-member LLC and then assign the contract to the syndication LLC during the DD period? Going along with this, is this different if you're acquiring a smaller deal with just a singular partner?

Would love to hear some input from the GPs out there on the most efficient way to do this.

Thanks! 

Quote from @Jaron Walling:

@Gabe Goudreau We're investors in Indy and have completed a few BRRRRs on the east side. You have to cast the fishing line over and over again until something bites. 

From an investors prospective there are few opportunities. MLS is priced aggressively and nets no profit (flip) or cash-flow (BRRRR) unless you low ball. Wholesaler is stuff is mostly bottom of the barrel. Check out 729 N Chester Ave. I walked this property about a month ago when it was full of trash. Wholesaler had it for $90k "as-is", another wholesaler bought it, cleaned it out, and relisted it for $120k. It wasn't a good deal $90k because of the age, weird layout, and the bathroom was tiny. It needs a full rehab, roof, garage, appliances, everything. We estimated the ARV to be $150-160k. Paper napkin math says skinny deal.

Don't get caught in a wholesaler shuffle. A cleanout does not create $30k in value.

Update; that property is pending at $120k so maybe I'm dumb. If it sells for >$120k I'll get a good chuckle and continue being clueless about this market. 


Very interesting, I just ran through the numbers of that property myself. I saw a few higher comps that may lead some to push the arv: 956 N Chester - Sold for $182.5k ($133/sqft), 607 N Chester - Sold for $165k ($130/sqft)(2 baths though), and 520 N Bradley - Sold for $170k ($113/sqft)(also 2 baths). Averaging these, I calculated ARV to be $174k. Knocking off $4k for that additional bathroom let's say it's $170k ARV, looking at this for a flip and using the 75% formula and a $120k buy price that only leaves $7500 for a reno budget - I'm no expert but I'm pretty sure it'll take more than that!

Rentometer has avg rents at only $1067/mo so I'm also not sure about paying that much for such little rent for a long-term hold perspective when from what little research I've done you can get more elsewhere for the same buy price - maybe someone looking to park money for tax purposes or an all-cash deal hoping for a big upside? 

Thank you for the advice, crazy times we are in. This deal confuses me too! 

Going through and underwriting a couple of SFH BRRR opportunities I've came across in the Indianapolis MSA, specifically Marion County.

I'm not local to the area, and am not familiar with operating expenses for these types of projects. I'm more used to underwriting MF deals and extrapolating existing T12 data, so this is a bit different for me.

All the properties are 3 beds, ranging from 1000 to 1400 sqft. They are in Fountain Square, Crooked Creek, and Forest Manor/Audubon Gardens.

I normally see expense ratios sitting around 40-50% for SFH's, is this accurate for this area?

With that being said, how is anyone making BRRRs work in today's climate (without heinously lowballing)? The deals I underwrite have been cash flowing right up until I put debt service on them, even with taking a break even amount in a refi. 

Would love to get some inputs, and to connect with pros in the area. 

Thanks! 

Post: Flipping Modular Homes?

Gabe GoudreauPosted
  • Lansing, MI
  • Posts 28
  • Votes 10

My goal is to fix and sell, it is mostly a cleanout from the looks of it, and I believe that it is affixed to the land. Great suggestion about being able to be financed, I will call some local lenders and ask. Thank you! 

Post: Flipping Modular Homes?

Gabe GoudreauPosted
  • Lansing, MI
  • Posts 28
  • Votes 10

There's a property tax foreclosure auction coming up in my area soon (Ingham County, MI) and one of the properties being auctioned I found out is a 3 bed, 2 bath modular home. There are other modular homes in the area, but there is no info about them selling on the MLS to use as comps, I'm assuming this is because they were just purchased as a lot and placed a modular home on it. There is also no open house for this property, I would have to buy it sight unseen.

Does anyone have experience flipping modular homes or should I just stick to the more competitive SFH's on this auction?

Quote from @Joshua Christensen:
Quote from @Gabe Goudreau:

Hey Everyone, 

I've been building an Excel financial model that can quickly analyze potential value-add multifamily projects and I've run into an issue that I wasn't expecting - when calculating the returns, do you take into account both the refinance and sale proceeds, along with the cash flow? Or just one of the capital events along with the cash flow?  

Currently, when I include both refinance and sale proceeds, I get an unrealistic XIRR of 49%, while the average cash flow throughout the investment (7-year hold period) sat around 8%, and this seems incorrect to me. 

Please let me know some feedback, I can elaborate more if needed. Thank you! 


 I agree with David.

IRR is sensitive to capital events. Does your refinance include a return of capital at that time? If so, your IRR is going to be affected in a higher way. If you pay back all the upfront capital needed to fund the deal, the return becomes infinite after that, so that plays heavy.

When I underwrite my deals, I plan on 5 years without a refi.  It's a more "pure" approach, then if I like the numbers, I'll move forward.  A refi only juices my returns in that scenario if I refin in less than the 5 year projection.  Underwrite for the worst you'll accept and then perform to your best ability to maximize over time.


Yes, it includes a return of capital at that time. Here is an ss of what I have currently, this connects to other tabs of the model. The ($597k) is the initial equity invested, the $220k is proceeds from a refinance, and the $1.2 MM is sale proceeds. These are based on fictional numbers, assuming a 7-cap valuation at refinance & sale. I will run through an actual deal soon, just trying to fine-tune the model in the meantime. 

Quote from @David Wallace:

Generally, yes all capital events count towards IRR calcs.

It's technically possible to have a high IRR number with average cash flow numbers if most of the returns are coming from the capital event(s).

That said, 49% IRR seems too good to be true. IRR estimates are extremely sensitive to the exit cap assumptions. Without knowing much about the project you're looking at, that's where I'd look in the model

Thank you, still going through with fake numbers and entry/exit cap rates to make sure the formulas work correctly. I will run through a real underwriting and see how the cap rate assumptions affect this. 

Hey Everyone, 

I've been building an Excel financial model that can quickly analyze potential value-add multifamily projects and I've run into an issue that I wasn't expecting - when calculating the returns, do you take into account both the refinance and sale proceeds, along with the cash flow? Or just one of the capital events along with the cash flow?  

Currently, when I include both refinance and sale proceeds, I get an unrealistic XIRR of 49%, while the average cash flow throughout the investment (7-year hold period) sat around 8%, and this seems incorrect to me. 

Please let me know some feedback, I can elaborate more if needed. Thank you!