All Forum Posts by: Elliot B.

@Colleen F. You nailed it - I'm talking about hydronic heating systems. You *could* bill proportionately in more of a RUBS style with out meters. The heat loss isn't a huge deal but probably could get you in trouble if it went to court. For example, in my building the heating pipes for the second floor apartments probably run 30-40ft before entering those units. The heat lost along the way would still stay in the building but wouldn't go directly towards heating the units who are getting billed. The solution is to location the meters as close to the billed unit as possible (or even inside) but sometimes that's not convenient because the return and supply lines are on opposite sides of the building whereas you could easily put the meter right next to your boiler / zone valves where all of the pipes are easily accessible.

As for cost per BTU, with oil, you keep a rolling average of the price per gallon in your tanks and divide the BTU's used by 138,500 (BTUs contained in a gallon of heating fuel). That will give you the total gallons used and you can bill accordingly. There are companies who provide this as a service.

@Jim Goebel I guess it comes down to legal precedent and the definition of revenue grade. Id be willing to guess that most meters would come under scrutiny.

Btw this is a for hydronic heating systems so you have a closed loop. There are still variables due to heat loss along the way to the units but the medium (water) carrying the heat is guaranteed to flow to its destination (radiators). So by measuring the flow of the water and the temperature delta across the supply and return lines, you get an accurate usage figure.

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@Jeremy A. thanks for the link. I think I might. Do you have experience with them?

@Brett Jones yep they are expensive, especially at that scale but consider the maintenance costs of additional heating systems and how he numbers change with more units.

@Jim Goebel That’s like saying science is fake. These meters and others like it are in use across the country for this very purpose. Do you mean that all submetering is illegal or only using certain meters? Are speaking specifically to Maine law?

@Tyler Bushey Again, I don’t see how that is possible when you only have one heating system. Especially when the boiler only has one gas inlet... How do the meters know which unit is calling for heat?

@Tyler Bushey Care to elaborate on how you would achieve this with only one boiler? Which sensors / technology do you use for this?

Do you mean separate meters on the street (provided by the utility) or separate meters as I've described in the building / on the piping?

I don't really see a way to have separate utility meters with a single boiler since there is generally only a single gas inlet.

@Cody DeLong yeah, I've considered the heat pump with oil backup option. You could lock the oil thermostats at like 50 for a baseline heat and let the tenants heat the rest of the way with their heat pumps.

Hey all,

It's winter time and the oil is flowing. This gives me plenty of incentive to find a way to cut some of these heating expenses. Most of the time when the topic of submetering heat is brought up the consensus is to install one heating system per unit. This is expensive from an initial capital and maintenance standpoint and I've been on the hunt for a better way.

One option that I've found is installing BTU/Flow meters (Istec 4440) on the supply and return lines for each heating zone (one zone per unit). This will effectively measure the exact energy usage per unit. Several companies offer these meters in combination with a software platform for monitoring and billing. It is my understanding that the company works out the tenant billing rates based on your master utility bill to keep it consistent and fair.

So, the technology exists BUT is it legal in Maine to bill the tenants in this way? i.e. Measure usage with a BTU/Flow meter and bill them directly. Further, how can you enforce collections if you're not a utility? One suggestion I was given was to add a clause to your lease that payments are first applied to utilities then rent.

Is anyone in Maine / New England doing this type of submetering? Can anyone chime in on the billing/legality aspect?

Stay warm,

I’d come up as well Michael

@Cody DeLong Big congrats on this one. I'm looking for something in the same size range (8-20 units) Would you mind sharing NOI at purchase vs projected once renovated?

@Shelby Guilford I can connect you with the mortgage broker that I used to buy my 4-unit that I owner-occupy. DM me