All Forum Posts by: Ed L.

The financed amount will only be 35-45k so spending $2k on mortgage originator or on a real appraisal and all that makes a larger % difference when it is so cheap..

But it sucks not being able to access equity until it’s paid off.. Refinancing at 12 months or whatever would also probably just be a huge expense no?

Landlord really wants out of the business and has offered me an incredibly good price and land contract..

I think the cards are in my favor because they really want to sell and frankly I think THEY are lucky to have someone they can so easily sell it to.. 

The house would not pass FHA inspection for many reasons and just all the fees that get eaten up in a traditional deal, they are much better off selling it to me..

But.. I want to be able to put a good amount of money and sweat equity into the property almost immediately and then get it appraised and HELOC it, but I don't think that can be done on a regular land contract?

And for a seller to do a note and deed sale, a mortgage originator needs to be paid quite a bit of money?

Is their any really cheap and good way to structure this seller financing where I get title in hand and can access the equity I build on this property much faster? Because really I think with only some moderate effort I could get this property to appraise for about double what I’m going to pay for it, and with maybe another $20k invested into it I think it could be worth more around triple what I’m going to pay for it. Their are just a lot of little things and the big thing is the garage on the property that is in quite a state of disrepair but is still very structurally sound..

What options could I come up with here?

Nice tip on the Vrolio tool. The numbers look promising but I need to come up with more solid numbers like a solid estimation of taxes, insurance, electric, heat, etc..

I'll take a look at the tax papers and see what it's assessed at. I saw it a bit ago and remember it went up a couple k for this year but don't remember the overall amount.

How could I see if it "pencils out" if I don't "estimated vacation rental income as a basis"?

It all hinges on rental income to pay for itself. 

I may have the opportunity to buy this property and basically name my price, but I wouldn't do it for an unfair price.

If the rental analysis works out close to a fair market price I might be able to do it..

I am thinking that this place could be exceptional for this area as far as a non-seasonal vacation rental because it has great summer and winter characteristics. 

In the summer it is great because it is right on a very nice river that is very popular for canoeing and tubing. The river also is great fishing for trout and even sturgeon, as well as deer and rabbit hunting, and ATVing. 

In the winter this is a snowmobile hotspot. It is about 1/8th mile from a main snowmobile trail and a nice bar whose parkinglot is often packed with snowmobiles. The place has a large barn with doors on each end so snowmobiles can park inside and drive right out the other side. It could easily fit 10 or more sleds to be parked inside, and has an additional attached 2 car garage.

It is also only about a 10 minute drive to get on the main highway I75 so it has great access for travelers. 

I feel these factors give this place an advantage over most as a prospect for a short term rental property.

The downside is that the place is not extremely fancy. It is not all brand new bright and shiny and very modern, but it is a nice place nonetheless. It is however well done and nicely maintained, with nice front and rear porches, the rear with a view of the river.

It has 3 medium sized bedrooms with room for a king/queen in each, a large living room, dining area enough for 10, and another larger livingroom/familyroom. 

Looking on Air BNB it goes by how many guests can be accommodated. Well, 6 for the 3 bedrooms, but what about additional sleeping options such as hide-a-bed couches in each of the living rooms, or a few single beds could be put in the other livingroom? How do you account for that if a group wanted to come for a snowmobile trip? I don't think they are the kind of guys that all need their own king size beds if you know what I mean. I even see them in RVs in the winter.. Come to think of it their is plenty of space for an RV as well if they wanted to bring one also. I could even put RV pads in the back field for summer.. 

How can I value what rental income I could make off of this property? Air BNB comps seem to be from 150 up to 300 a night, I think.. 200-250 a night sounds appropriate do you think? What about occupancy, how can I estimate it? 50% maybe?

 $250k @ 6% 30yr = about $1500 a month loan payment X 12 = 18,000 a year..

$250 per day X 365 X 50% = $45,625

Taxes $5,000 year maybe.. It's a little over $3,000 right now with homestead but another 15 or so acres.. 

45-18-5= up $22k per year.. 30% occupancy still more than breaks even.

Here is the property..

https://i.imgur.com/YD4zSTG.jpg?1[/img]

https://www.google.com/maps/@45.2924483,-84.605787...

What do you think? 

Any ideas on price and income property prospects?

Thank you for the replies guys!

I guess it is on LandsofAmerica and looks pretty good there with nice pictures. Better than zillow for sure..

I'm thinking maybe I can jump on some snowmobiling forums and maybe hunting forums and see if their are any places there I can post links to the listing to maybe catch the eye of some potential buyers. Maybe I could also print out some flyers with a nice picture and description and see if their are some good places to hang them like at that bar right around the corner from the property, local bulletin boards, snowmobile bars, or something..

The problem is all of this property is homesteaded and grandma needs to move in with other family that can take care of her, but if she does legally the taxes on all of these properties is going to skyrocket for her to more than what her small income can afford. She wants to sell the property with her house on it there too but if the house sells first then the homestead on the properties goes away with that option too..

She is not doing excellently health and mobility wise lately, including upcoming surgeries, new diabetes, and nutrient deficiencies. That alone is more stress than she can handle at times so all of this extra stress about the properties and finances is too much so the burden of it needs to be lifted off of her. It is what she wants but she just cannot stand to think about so many things. Our main goal with her is mostly to get her into a more positive attitude and outlook on life. 

A poster above mentions that the price just may be too high and I am not disagreeing with that but to try to bring that understanding to her would be heartbreaking for her and all the stress of even having to talk about such things is best to be avoided. She has the wits but not the tolerance for the stress..

If you think that the property would only sell for roughly half the current asking price then I would seriously consider buying it myself at that price. I have lived on this property in the past. I grew up on and around this property and watched trees grow from just sprouts to 40' tall in all these years. For personal sentimental reasons I do not like to see this property go at any price much less than for a steal.

The property with the house on it I think may be prime for a year round vacation rental so I want to get around to crunching the numbers on that possible play but she is greatly adverse to any ideas of renting as she has had bad experiences with that in the past and is too much stress on her so in order to do something like that I would have to buy it myself, or with partners, so it is 100% no longer her problem or concern. 

I want to get into real estate myself, especially rentals, but I am not about to try risking the assets of my family to do it or trying to convince them of anything.  They are very risk adverse while I am not.. I mentioned the idea of just putting a few concrete slabs on the 13 acre parcel, to rent out as RV camp sights, but even that low risk idea was quickly dismissed as "they would make a mess and be loud/obnoxious".

I had the $$ and income to buy a while ago but not the credit, so I have been working on my credit for quite a while and now it is quite nice in the mid 700s but being somewhat entrepreneurial and investing a lot of my time, money, and work into my own affairs now I don't have the "income", lol. I don't think the answer of "Yeah, I did $XX,XXX amount of work for myself and family estates this year" would fly with any banks, you think?

Sorry for taking so long to reply. I didn't check in for a while because it looked like my topic wasn't drawing any interest.

On google maps it looks like you can see the property boundaries..

I talked to her today and she has the actual survey maps but not with her.. 

Here is a very close representation of the 2 lots..

The larger lot is approximately 13 acres and the smaller lot is just under 2 acres.

The prices have been lowered from $180,000 on the larger lot to $110,000 and from $80,000 on the smaller lot to $45,000.

Both have access and have been "perc tested" and approved for building, wells, septics, and a bridge across the creek if wanted. 

Here is a sat view..

The lot just to the left of the smaller lot has been sold, built on, and they are asking $300,000, as a price comparison..

She is absolutely involved with all of these decisions and is still very capable of making all of her own decisions though overwhelmed with everything.

What can I do to get one or both of these sold?

Can you give any advice on the asking prices? 

This is very prime snowmobile territory, hunting, fishing, "Pure Michigan" at it's best. The creek is crystal clear cold water and a trout spawning area. Their are massive rare Sturgeion fsh in the river, trout, deer, rabbits, Beaver, and wildlife everywhere. All of the connected lots are either still owned or have been sold and built on. The lots that have been sold and built on have been well invested into (one now asking $300k as mentioned above on one small lot).

In my opinion this is very prime property but what is it really worth? 

I posted the current remax listing in the OP but it was deleted because it was "advertising".. I only meant it to provide a description. 

This is my families property and it needs to sell so my recently widowed grandmother can invest the money into building accommodation for her to move in with other family so she is not alone, and remove the tax and upkeep  burden of this property from her.

The current listing from some realtor but it is not completely correct..

zillow doesn't even have it on the right place on the map..

Their are actually 2 seperate properties here that are supposed to be listed.

The one is the 13 acres with the creek but is uncleared land but has good access. The other one is like a 2 acre cleared lot that is also on the river but not attached to the 13 acres. 

Their is more property than this also but is not listed for sale yet.

I should get pictures of the actual property boundaries/lots for you guys. 

This is under contract with a listing agent for a few more months.

I am not looking to collect a commission on this or anything but just get it sold. Even if my efforts lead to its sale the listing agent can have their commission or even after the contract expires I do not intend to try to make any money personally from this. I am just trying to help my family here..

What can I do?

I should get pictures of the actual property surveys to post here and satellite images and I'm hoping you guys can help me figure out how to get this to sell.. 

Imagine you are the mentor of an 18 year old kid that wants to get into real estate investing but has ZERO credit history.. 

Pretty much the position I am in.. No authorized user options available.. What would you recommend to them?

How many accounts and what accounts would you suggest for them to get on their reports and get them ageing in order to set them up with the best possible credit profile so in the future they can get approved for the best rates on Mortgages, refis, helocs, improvment loans, etc.? 

So they will be able to BRRRR and carry a mortgage on 10 rentals while still being able to finance more and everything you need to do to get rich investing other peoples money in real estate..

Get lots of accounts on there? Just a few? 

Should they also fire up an LLC or similar as early as possible to get their business credit building as well? Contractor business?

I have 4 credit cards started and an SSL set and forget loan with 7 months total of perfect history so far. What else to do?

The mortgage scores want you to have an auto loan but I have no need for or want an auto loan and it's not exactly easy cheap or simple to get an auto loan just for the sake of having an auto loan..  

Maybe I could refi cash out like $1,000 or so off of one of my cars and pay it back? 

Sounds like a silly thing to do but so does a secured loan or secured credit card but you have to play their game.. 

I just want to do everything I can while I can.. 

To me this just looks like pumping the market..

If they want RE to keep going up they need to get more money flowing into it.. 

After the crash they let the prime money pump it, when that runs out they let the average money pump it, when that runs out they let the subprime money pump it..

If you are a prime borrower, great, you get to buy the dip right away.. Average and you still get to catch a decent ride up..

Now the subprime ha, they run out of prime and average money to pump the market with so they finally let the poor people's subprime money in, pump it some more.. 

This works out good for most of them because the prime/rich "investor" people get to make all the money in the market, and they finally let the poor people in to buy the tippity top, so the poor subprime people take the brunt of the next crash as they just bought the top..

Your prime dip buy is still probably going to be in the green but these poor people buying the top will owe twice as much as their house is worth.. 

Keep the rich getting richer, the poor getting poorer, and the American market pumped.. 

The more I look into the credit system the more it becomes clear, it's ALL about pumping the markets, and the normies eat it right up.. 

Credit cards to get people to spend as much as possible on china plastic to pump the consumerism market..

Auto loans to pump the auto industry.. 

Real estate loans to pump the real estate industry.. 

All pumped by money that people don't have, created out of thin air by the fiat currency system.. 

I expect my assets to perform with a negative correlation to major world markets so if a dip comes I'll be prepared to buy, have cash, and have a heck of a credit score by then to boot.. 

I doubt I will be buying anything until then unless it's more of a private deal until refi with a good value add.. 

I really want to but a house ASAP because I feel like I'm just loosing money.. The rent I could collect on my current house would about cover the mortgage on the new house, but nothing seems right.. 

It's pretty tricky because property values drastically change in a few miles here in Northern Michigan.. 

Just raw land for example drops by about 10X from property on/near lakes like Torch and in tourist towns, to a few miles down the road, or the next town over..

Houses IN my town for example, including property, are worth less than it would cost to build one, or even put a decent manufactured house.. 

Take a decent $50k 2 story in my town, put the same thing on a 4 acre property out of town 3 miles, and it's worth $150k.. On a prime lake it would be $1mm.. 

Their are fixer uppers in town for grabs from time to time from $1500 to $10k, but building materials and labor aren't cheaper when you use them in town, so the numbers don't seem to work.. 

Everything is listed so high IMO but they seem to stay listed for quite some time.. 

I think lowball offers are going to be where it's at around here but I need a solid preapproval to do that I think, to even find out.. 

Their is some stuff listed available on land contract at what seem to me to be predatory rates..

BUT, I have found that I see the best deals on property that financing isn't available for.. 

Their was an awesome place in great shape on 4 acres with a nice garage (I am a garage guy), but their was some problem with the title on the doublewide so you couldn't get a loan on it.. 

I bet it sold for $30-$35k and could be rented out for $700 a month.. 

If you wanted to pay cash for it or some unconventional financing, but then you might run into huge problems refinancing it somehow so you could move onto your next property.. 

I would have liked to have had it to live in myself though, and rent out my current trailer for $400-$450.. 

My trailer is not in great shape so putting a lot of $ into it is like money down the drain but a LOT of people around here rent places in MUCH worse shape so I think it's best to just leave it in it's current bracket and move on to something else.. 

I have been thinking a lot.. 

I am a complete amateur in real estate so my assessment may be way wrong.. 

I wish I was as good at real estate as I am cars.. 

I can appraise the crap out of cars, diagnose them, quote repairs on them, and am confident dealing with them.. 

Infact, I have a lot of asset $ in my cars, more than I have into them because I buy cars I can value add to. 

I daily drive pretty sweet cars this way and don't lose money on them.. Most people lose stupid money on their cars and drive boring kias/hondas (no offence).. 

If you think about how much an average person loses on their cars, between depreciation and interest on loan after loan, every car saves about enough money for a down payment on a house.. 

If I can translate this into real estate I think I could make REAL money doing it..

I have done a lot of residential construction work and even built (with family) the house my mother lives in now from scratch..

So I can diagnose real estate and repair real estate, I'm pretty confident in that.. 

But, I am not so confident in my ability to quote the costs of these repairs, quote their value before and after, quote their expected appreciation/depreciation, market conditions, and such, like I can cars.. 

What are some good ways to learn to quote all of these facets of real estate value and cost?

I could probably sit down and price a job, draw up plans, and price it out in materials cost for every 2x4, sheet of drywall, and box of screws.. But that would be a lot of work getting so detailed.. 

And the time/labor cost of such a quote, I am not the lest bit confident that I could make a good educated guess.. 

For now all I am really doing is looking at listings to get a better idea of real estate values, but to me they mostly all seem outrageously expensive anyway, or not worth putting money into, maybe some rare interesting deals that I am probably not ready for yet creditwise..

Getting there.. 

Sorry for getting off topic and talking so much about MY situation in YOUR thread..