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All Forum Posts by: Corey Duran

Corey Duran has started 14 posts and replied 38 times.

Post: General Liability and Umbrella Policies

Corey DuranPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Toledo, OH
  • Posts 39
  • Votes 14

Time and time again while on these forums people kept saying just get an umbrella policy. Can anyone explain these a bit more. I asked an agent for a quote and they sent me a general liability and an umbrella policy. Should I get both?

This is what I was quoted if anyone could comment on it.

$750 a year for general liability which I can’t find the details of what it covers. I’ll ask. And then 1M umbrella policy for $600 a year.
Then he says the umbrella is strictly for my company and he can get me one personally..


Am I really going to have to get 3 policies? Can anyone give me some advice/guidance on this stuff and maybe share what you use.

Post: Looking to change my business structure (single LLC now)

Corey DuranPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Toledo, OH
  • Posts 39
  • Votes 14

Currently, I have many properties, all under one LLC roof. I know this is not the move... That is why I am looking to change this. I am curious how I should do this. I have heard of setting up a series LLC. But these are still new and could be rejected by a lender. I have heard about having a parent company with several LLCs below it. This sounds doable. I have even heard about having a Wyoming LLC and getting very complex to have more anonymity. This seems unnecessary currently.

I am looking for more security but with a good balance of ease of use. Making 10 LLCs and bank accounts seems like a lot of work, but I guess I would be willing to do it if someone could give solid advice on how to stay organized. Also, I would like advice on whether I should set up the new LLCs or have an attorney handle that. I'm sure I could figure out how to do it. Is this a good idea? Would an attorney be able to make the LLC more secure from lawsuits? How would I transfer my current properties to the new LLCs? Quitclaim them? I want to keep my current financial position in these properties for tax purposes. I own all of them outright, so it should be slightly more manageable.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Post: Recommendations for blank commercial docs

Corey DuranPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Toledo, OH
  • Posts 39
  • Votes 14

I am seeking a recommendation for an attorney who can draft me commercial documents such as a purchase agreement, Letter of interest, and a Confidentiality Agreement. Looking for blanks so I can use them on different deals in the future. Local would be nice but not needed.

If you do not have an attorney to recommend please give guidance to search for one? I do not currently have any connections in the commercial realm who would help. (One I had doesn't want competition and will not help..)

Post: How do handle water bills start to finish (Buildium)

Corey DuranPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Toledo, OH
  • Posts 39
  • Votes 14
Quote from @Nathan Gesner:
Quote from @Corey Duran:

HOW TO SHARE UTILITIES 101

You have a property with two or more units and the utility meters are shared. There are a few options.

1. Pay to separately meter the utility. This can be very expensive and is usually the worst choice to make because you can't justify the cost.

2. Charge the tenants a higher rent rate and include utilities with their rent. This is the simplest method, but it also means your tenants are more likely to abuse the utilities by leaving windows open with the heat or A/C running, leaving lights on, ignoring the toilet that constantly flushes on its own, etc.

3. Pay the bill yourself, then reimburse yourself by charging the tenants based on a formula. This takes a little more work, but it's the most fair and reduces the likelihood of tenants that squander utilities.

If you choose #2 or #3, there are considerations:

Start with an average. Use varies throughout the year. Heating costs go up in winter, as does electric due to the reduced natural light and people being indoors more. Electric can also spike in the summer with A/C. Contact the utility provider and get an historical average based on the last year of use. It won't be 100% accurate, but it will be close enough. I recommend you do this each year to adjust for utility increases and other variables. If your average heating bill is $150, you may not collect enough in the winter months when the bill reaches $225 but you'll collect extra in the summer when it drops to $65. If you base your tenant charges on the historical average, you should come very close to collecting the entire amount over a one-year period.

Charge a higher rate. If the water bill is $100 a month, increase the price by 20% (or whatever you decide is fair) to compensate you for the time required to split and bill and to cover additional use when tenants squander the utility. If the bill is $100 a month split between four units, increase it to $120 and charge each tenant $30.

How to calculate charges. Don't make it harder than it has to be. If you have four 2bed/1bath units with the same appliances, split it four ways and call it a day. You can make minor adjustments based on the type of appliances (dishwasher, clothes washer and dryer, air conditioning, etc.) and the size of the rental. If Apartment A is a 2bed/1bath with washer/dryer and Apartment B is a 1bed/1bath with no washer/dryer, Apartment A should pay a higher rate. Another option is to split the cost based on the number of occupants in each unit but this also means you'll need to adjust the charges as tenants move in/out, so it requires more work and I wouldn't recommend it. I recommend a simple spreadsheet to check your math and it will make it simple to adjust each year.

End the complaints. Tenants may complain about your method of calculating how much each unit pays. They think it's unfair because they only shower once a week but they can hear the upstairs neighbor showering twice a day. You can put an end to this by showing them an actual utility bill. Why? Because a large percentage of the charges are base fees that do not change based on use!

I just looked at a utility bill and it has a total charge of $184.12 but $116.50 is from base fees! If I divide this bill by four units, each tenant would pay $46.03. If they were separately metered, each tenant would pay the $116.50 base fees and their individual use, which would be 3x higher than what they pay when sharing a meter.

There are a lot of options out there, but don't make it more complicated than it needs to be. Tenants actually save money when using a shared meter, so there's plenty of room for error when calculating how to distribute the charges.


 I agree with the statement to not make it more complicated than it needs to be. That is why I'm trying to ask others how they do it and replicate that and get it standardized for how I run my business. I appreciate the examples you gave and will look into implementing them! Thank you very much Nathan!

Post: Wyoming LLC protection

Corey DuranPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Toledo, OH
  • Posts 39
  • Votes 14
Quote from @Nathan Gesner:
Quote from @Corey Duran:

You can set them up yourself. All the forms are on the Wyoming Secretary of State website. Or you can hire a registered agent. Or you can pay a good chunk of money to have an attorney do it.

Or you can save a lot of time, money, and energy by purchasing an umbrella insurance policy and calling it a day.

An LLC is useful for two things: anonymity and legal protection. In most cases, neither is warranted.

Warning: I am not an attorney and this can be a complicated topic. Please note the information provided below is a layman's definition designed to provide a basic understanding for the general audience. You should consult an attorney or CPA for your specific situation.

ANONYMITY: When you create the LLC, your name is recorded on the documents and published on the Secretary of State website for all to see. So you're not completely anonymous. If you want to be completely anonymous, you can use a Registered Agent. The Registered Agent will record the documents on your behalf so only their name and information appears on the documents. I've done this with my properties because I'm well known in my small town and don't want people to know what I own.

LEGAL PROTECTION: By placing your assets in an LLC, you are legally separating them from your personal assets. If someone injures themselves and sues, they will be suing the LLC and not you personally. If your insurance coverage isn't enough, they could seize the LLC assets, but not your personal assets.

Additional thoughts:

1. An LLC is not free. You can spend as little as $100 to form an LLC, or you could use an attorney and spend $1,000 or more. There are also additional costs of operating and maintaining an LLC, like separate bank accounts, annual report filings, tax filings, etc.

2. There are rules to follow! If you fail to follow the rules, you may open your personal assets to a lawsuit. An example of this would be mixing your personal money and LLC money in the same bank account.

3. You do not need a separate LLC for each property or a series LLC! Don't make your life more complicated than it has to be. Most professionals will recommend a separate LLC for every $1 million in assets but I don't think that's necessary. In my case, I have residential rentals in one LLC, commercial properties in another, self storage in a third, and my real estate company operates in a fourth. Some have more than $1 million in equity while others have less.

4. The need for an LLC is grossly exaggerated on BiggerPockets and other websites. Have you ever heard of a Landlord being sued by a Tenant and losing property? I've been on this board since 2010 and haven't found an example yet. You've probably heard of big Landlords losing property, but only because they were flagrantly violating Fair Housing, running a slum, or otherwise violating the law in an egregious manner. You are more likely to be struck by lightning twice. The vast majority of lawsuits against Landlords are for wrongful eviction, security deposit disputes, and Fair Housing Violations. Your basic insurance policy with $300,000 in liability coverage should be sufficient in 99.999% of all lawsuits.

5. The best protection for you and your investments? Know and obey the law. I manage around 400 rentals with 12 years experience and have never been sued once. Even if I were sued, I document everything and obey the law, so I won't be found guilty. Even if I were found guilty, the cost would be in the thousands, not in the millions. Insurance would cover it, I would pay the deductible, and no assets would be lost.

If you are in an area like San Diego where people are more likely to sue, a judge is more likely to find you guilty, and the payout is likely to be higher, then you may consider an umbrella insurance policy. This policy will provide additional coverage above what your existing policy covers. It's easy to obtain, costs very little, and doesn't require additional, on-going effort to maintain.


I appreciate the insight! I do not know who I would use as an agent on these LLCs and anonymity sounds nice to me. As of now, I'm doing everything out of one LLC. Also, when would you recommend using different LLCs then? Are you not a fan of a series LLC? This sounds like a cheaper way to get the separation per property with much less work and cost. I do completely agree on it being unlikely I will get sued. I do not plan on breaking any laws nor do I think many of my tenants have the funds or the knowledge to sue. I rent to low-income families. Not to sound like a slum lord bringing up the comment of their know-how to sue.. again I do not break laws and I'm a good landlord. I have been looking into estate planning and I thought having one Wyoming LLC that is under my trust that owns the rest would be the easier way of doing things.

Post: Series LLCs do they really offer as much protection as multiple LLCs (hub and spoke)

Corey DuranPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Toledo, OH
  • Posts 39
  • Votes 14

I have been doing a lot of research online while trying to figure out how I am going to restructure my rental business and one thing that has recently been introduced to me is the series LLC. I was going down the path of the hub and spoke model when I found a solution that would essentially solve the biggest issue I was facing. Having so many bank accounts and other administrative extra work.

I am in Ohio where Series LLCs are allowed and this sounds like a really good solution for me. However, the one bank account thing was what many have warned me about. I have read that this is a big no-no in trying to get asset protection. They basically have said this equals an easy piercing of the veil. I am just curious if someone could give a little insight on the series LLCs.

Do you use one?

Are there any major drawbacks compared to setting up multiple individual LLCs?

Do you know of any attorneys who could help me set one up properly?

Post: Wyoming LLC protection

Corey DuranPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Toledo, OH
  • Posts 39
  • Votes 14

I hear a lot on the internet that no matter how you set up your business structure for asset protection you want to have your main holding company that owns all of your other LLCs out of Wyoming, Delaware, or Nevada for anonymity purposes.. Wyoming is one of the cheaper to set up and maintain. The idea is that if someone goes to look at your locally owned LLC they will just see that a Wyoming LLC owns it and that Wyoming won't give out any owner info to the general public.

This sounds good and all but are there any drawbacks to doing something like this that I am not considering?

Can anyone recommend an attorney who could help properly set this up? Would this possibly be the same attorney who would set up the other LLCs or should I get someone in Wyoming?

(Posted in wrong category please delete)

I have been doing a lot of research online while trying to figure out how I am going to restructure my rental business and one thing that has recently been introduced to me is the series LLC. I was going down the path of the hub and spoke model when I found a solution that would essentially solve the biggest issue I was facing. Having so many bank accounts and other administrative extra work.

I am in Ohio where Series LLCs are allowed and this sounds like a really good solution for me. However, the one bank account thing was what many have warned me about. I have read that this is a big no-no in trying to get asset protection. They basically have said this equals an easy piercing of the veil.  I am just curious if someone could give a little insight on the series LLCs.

Do you use one?

Are there any major drawbacks compared to setting up multiple individual LLCs?

Do you know of any attorneys who could help me set one up properly?

Post: Bank statement reconciliation help

Corey DuranPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Toledo, OH
  • Posts 39
  • Votes 14

I have never set this up in my Buildium software but should I? What are the major benefits and drawbacks of using this feature? I am curious who does this and how hard it is to set this up after I have been using my software without it for over a year now. I have my bank account linked but my balance is not linked at all.

Any tips from someone who started off not using this feature and then switched to using it later or someone who helped set this up for someone else?

Any insight/advice would be greatly appreciated!

Post: Suggestions for custom income/expense accounts for accounting software

Corey DuranPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Toledo, OH
  • Posts 39
  • Votes 14

Most software (I use Buildium) comes with standard income/expense accounts. Are there any custom accounts or subcategories you would recommend for write-off purposes or just a general overview of a property at the end of the year? If anyone has some suggestions they use or have heard please share.

example: My accountant said to have a custom category for photography and closing gifts on my Realtor side of things so it is easier to know how much I spend per year on that. Another investor makes a subcategory for certain projects like Roofing so he knows what he spends on roofs per year.