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All Forum Posts by: Dennis Moore

Dennis Moore has started 4 posts and replied 15 times.

Quote from @Nathan Gesner:
Quote from @Dennis Moore:

Hello I'm close to St Louis. I wanted to know who pays for Water and Sewer if the Owner pays do you roll that into the rentals or have them pay a percentage separate.


You want tenants taking responsibility for utilities whenever possible. If not possible, there are a couple options.

HOW TO SHARE UTILITIES 101

You have a property with two or more units and the utility meters are shared. There are a few options.

1. Pay to separately meter the utility. This can be very expensive and is usually the worst choice to make because you can't justify the cost.

2. Charge the tenants a higher rent rate and include utilities with their rent. This is the simplest method, but it also means your tenants are more likely to abuse the utilities by leaving windows open with the heat or A/C running, leaving lights on, ignoring the toilet that constantly flushes on its own, etc.

3. Pay the bill yourself, then reimburse yourself by charging the tenants based on a formula. This takes a little more work, but it's the most fair and reduces the likelihood of tenants that squander utilities.

If you choose #2 or #3, there are considerations:

Start with an average. Use varies throughout the year. Heating costs go up in winter, as does electric due to the reduced natural light and people being indoors more. Electric can also spike in the summer with A/C. Contact the utility provider and get an historical average based on the last year of use. It won't be 100% accurate, but it will be close enough. I recommend you do this each year to adjust for utility increases and other variables. If your average heating bill is $150, you may not collect enough in the winter months when the bill reaches $225 but you'll collect extra in the summer when it drops to $65. If you base your tenant charges on the historical average, you should come very close to collecting the entire amount over a one-year period.

Charge a higher rate. If the water bill is $100 a month, increase the price by 20% (or whatever you decide is fair) to compensate you for the time required to split and bill and to cover additional use when tenants squander the utility. If the bill is $100 a month split between four units, increase it to $120 and charge each tenant $30.

How to calculate charges. Don't make it harder than it has to be. If you have four 2bed/1bath units with the same appliances, split it four ways and call it a day. You can make minor adjustments based on the type of appliances (dishwasher, clothes washer and dryer, air conditioning, etc.) and the size of the rental. If Apartment A is a 2bed/1bath with washer/dryer and Apartment B is a 1bed/1bath with no washer/dryer, Apartment A should pay a higher rate. Another option is to split the cost based on the number of occupants in each unit but this also means you'll need to adjust the charges as tenants move in/out, so it requires more work and I wouldn't recommend it. I recommend a simple spreadsheet to check your math and it will make it simple to adjust each year.

End the complaints. Tenants may complain about your method of calculating how much each unit pays. They think it's unfair because they only shower once a week but they can hear the upstairs neighbor showering twice a day. You can put an end to this by showing them an actual utility bill. Why? Because a large percentage of the charges are base fees that do not change based on use!

I just looked at a utility bill and it has a total charge of $184.12 but $116.50 is from base fees! If I divide this bill by four units, each tenant would pay $46.03. If they were separately metered, each tenant would pay the $116.50 base fees and their individual use, which would be 3x higher than what they pay when sharing a meter.

There are a lot of options out there, but don't make it more complicated than it needs to be. Tenants actually save money when using a shared meter, so there's plenty of room for error when calculating how to distribute the charges.

That's some wonderful advice I appreciate that a ton.
Quote from @Drew Sygit:

@Dennis Moore depends on the Class of the property.

Statistically, the lower the property Class, the harder the tenants are on it and the more maintenance that will be needed.


 Thank you for your insight I appreciate it.

Quote from @Christopher Liu:

For my analysis calculations, I use 8% for vacancies, 5% for CAPEX, 5% for misc repairs, 4-5% for Property Management but this changes pending on location. In reality, and only because it makes me feel better, I end up having way more than that in reserve.

Thank you for your insight I appreciate it.
Quote from @Nathan Gesner:
Quote from @Dennis Moore:

Hello, I wanted to know what percentage is good to save for like your Cap Ex, Vacancy...ect


This is not an exact science. It depends on your financial strength, the quality of the property, how many properties you own, etc.

I like to start with one major expense and three months of vacancy. Imagine if you had one single-family home. The tenant fails to pay their last month's rent and leaves the place needing new flooring and paint. It will take two months to turn it around and get it rented. That's three months of mortgage and utilities, the cost of flooring, and the cost of painting. That's a pretty common scenario and could cost you $10,000 - $15,000 so that would be a good starting point for your reserve.

But there's more!

What if you're a cardiologist with no debt and making $250,000 a year? You could probably afford $20,000 without much impact on your personal budget. If you're a single mom with student loans, a car payment, and living paycheck-to-paycheck, then $20,000 would be devastating and a reserve is critical.

What if you have an apartment complex with 20 units? Do you save three months of vacancy for each unit and $50,000 for the roof replacement? That would be around $90,000 sitting in a savings account! At this point, I would recommend having a line of credit to cover these things so you don't have money sitting in the bank doing nothing when it could be put to work.

I have 33 units, no debt except for mortgages, and excellent income. I can pay for all my problems using the cashflow from my current rentals. I also have a $175,000 line of credit at the ready if something catastrophic happened. A reserve is unnecessary, but I still keep around $15,000 - $20,000 in my account.

The point is, you should sit down and assess your personal finances to determine what the worst-case scenario may look like, how much you would need to cover it without impacting your life, and whether you will need to build a reserve.


 I appreciate your input that's something I will do is write down all my expenses and see were my money is going at the current moment then go from there.

Quote from @Patricia Steiner:

Depends on the property condition and the market.  Take stock of what capital expenditures are going to come your way in the next 1-5 years and get a real number.  A new roof may be more than some random percentage so get planned out and schedule it.  Vacancies...in my market, it is the seller who causes a property to go vacant because the demand far exceeds the supply.  Do a quick search of what is for rent in your zip code and determine the demand to supply. From there, you can get a more true estimate and avoid the financial pain of just plugging in a number.

And, kudos to you for asking these tough questions and planning for tough events.  That's the stuff of real investors...


 Thank you for your input and words of encouragement.

Quote from @Bjorn Ahlblad:

I generally use 5% vac, 5 for CAPEX and 5 for mtce. That is for a good building that has been well maintained, and decent tenant class. For PM I'd add another 10%.


 Thanks for the information.

Hello, I wanted to know what percentage is good to save for like your Cap Ex, Vacancy...ect

Hello I'm close to St Louis. I wanted to know who pays for Water and Sewer if the Owner pays do you roll that into the rentals or have them pay a percentage separate.

Oh ok I understand I appreciate your advise and encouragement.

I just wanted to make sure I understand you said to look for more deals sooner than later right?