All Forum Posts by: Davido Davido

"There is always a way, there is always another way, and there is always a better way."   Which doesn't automatically mean that what you want is worth doing but if you already have the flooring removed, it shouldn't take more than day to change the locations of your toilet and sink.   Even if it takes two days, the improved layout would be worth doing to me. 

@Jeff Bridges if it were my place, I'd redo the bathroom just the way you've laid it out, with the exception that I'd follow  

@Bob H.' s advice and relocate the Tub faucet handles.  Everyone who uses the bathroom will benefit noticeably from the improved layout.  Freeze protecting the water lines on an outside wall is easily handled with pipe insulation, and good wall insulation.   You can also use PEX pipe which has excellent resistance to freeze damage, and you add a 1/2" think layer reflectix foil insulation along the outside wall (which reflects 90% of radiant building heat back toward the house (but no good for reducing conductive heat loss -that is handled by insulation).  

If you have a decent whole saw, the joist direction should not be a worry either.  Many waste drains go under the joists, but if you have to go through them and are worried about weakening them, then just reinforce them by screwing a 2' to 3' length of joist board to the side of each joist you have to go through.   That will stiffen the joists right up, then drill through both the original joist and the scabbed on board.  No problem.  You're thinking right.  Correct the layout 

@Kenesha Lewis,  Greg and Mark correctly point you to the expected and generally preferred method of acquiring Real Property after the former owner dies.  In every  county, there will also be instances in which none of the heirs will care enough or be motivated enough to deal with the property or put it through probate.  Typically such properties remain vacant and derelict until they are foreclosed for delinquent property taxes.  

If a property has been truly "abandoned" it is possible to interrupt the property tax foreclosure process by paying the delinquent taxes yourself and simply using it as though it were your own.   Eventually, (7 years in Florida), you can have the title quieted in your name.   See: 
https://www.biggerpockets.com/member-blogs/12388/86727-renting-without-owner-permission-can-this-be-legal-even-semi-legal

@Jay Story all liens have a statute of limitations.  Ten years for Judgement Liens, and for IRS and State of Missouri Tax liens.  Mo. Rev. Stat. Sections 511.350 to .360; Mo. Civ. Proc. Rule 74.08, 74.13.

  Before you give up on the parcel, it would be wise to at least check how much longer the lien will be enforceable.  Note that it is possible in many state's (like mine -WA) to renew a lien -but that is very rarely done.   After the statute of limitations expires the lien will no longer be enforced by the courts, it can sometimes be removed upon request, or at least by filing a quiet title action.   

As an example, if the lien has been in effect for 6.5 years, then there is only 3.5 years till the lien is likely to become unenforceable.  What you plan to do with the property may come into play?  If you're just holding it, or if you plan to build, then the lien might have little financial impact.   In my area in might take a couple years to design, permit, and complete construction of a building.    You might negotiate a discount on the property that makes it worth waiting out the Statute of Limitations.   

Another alternative can be to challenge errors made in the original lawsuit.  It is surprisingly common how often a review of the court file reveals a fatal error made be the complaining party such as; improper Service of the Summons and Complaint, Statute of Limitations, violations of Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, Lack of Standing, Past Payment of the Debt -in Part or in Full,  Fraudulent Claim of Debt, Actual Discharge in Bankruptcy, Mistaken Identity, etc.   If there is enough potential in the property, then it is a simple matter to have your own astute lawyer review the court's file of the action that resulted in the Judgement.   

Do remember that the more difficult/distasteful a title problem is for the average investor, the more profit there can be for a persistant and knowledgeable investor.

@David Evans, the article posted above by @Vaughn Smith, titled "Buying Real Estate from Dead Persons"  does a good job of covering the typical scenarios.  In the very rare instances, where the relatives of the deceased owner(s) can not be found, it may also be possible to simply assume possession of the property and start using it as your own, as is discussed here.  

https://www.biggerpockets.com/member-blogs/12388/86773-renting-real-estate-without-the-owners-consent-isn-t-that-fraud

Do be aware that taking over real estate which has been abandoned is a highly specialized real estate activity.  Being successful requires considerable research.   Best wishes.

@Cassandra Sifford,  Correction.  There is case law in Delaware, to the effect that a landlord is not entitled to claim adverse possession.  Sorry to say.

@Cassandra Sifford,   If the vacant property you are considering has not gone through probate and remains unused, then I encourage you to look into it.  While Delaware does require 20 years of possession before granting an adverse possessor title, 20 years of low but steady monthly rental income is often worth the effort.  

The rest of Delaware's Adverse Possession requirements are pretty much the same as other States.  You should be aware that the Delaware requirements that: 1) There must be actual possession: the trespasser must be physically present on the land, treating it as his or her own; 2) There must be open and notorious possession: the act of trespassing cannot be secret; and 3) There must be exclusive and continuous possession: the trespasser cannot share possession with others, and must be in possession of the land for an uninterrupted period of time; -those requirements are all met if you act as a landlord who rents the property to another person.  

I understand, that such a statement appears to be at odds with the law because renting an abandoned property to another person is apparently contrary to the precepts that "the trespasser must be physically present on the land" and "the trespasser cannot share possession with others", however, in every state, a landlord who rents a property still qualifies as being the person who is in actual possession of the property, and as being in open and notorious possession of the property, and as being in exclusive and continuous possession of the property.  It is the landlord who the court's recognize as the person in possession, not the tenant. 

 If you seek advice on question's of Adverse Possession, it is important that you locate an Attorney who is familiar with that specific area of your State Law.   Adverse Possession is a rarely used area of the law that most attorney's, even Real Estate attorney's are unfamiliar with.  An example from my own experience of a Real Estate Attorney giving incorrect advice on the effect of owner abandonment (or death) and on adverse possession can be found here,

https://www.biggerpockets.com/member-blogs/12388/86731-abandoned-real-estate-legalities-there-are-two-sides-to-every-story

Best Wishes,

@Charles Willie Harris, Often in situations similar to this, the surviving relative does nothing and ends up losing the home in property tax foreclosure. One alternative would be to enter into an agreement with the sister to make a long term rental out of the house.  You could handle all the details and just offer her a percentage of the gross rents (10% to 30%) or perhaps a somewhat larger percentage of the net rents (after expenses) for a specified period of time 3 to 5 years.  

Renting out a home that has not been through probate can work when the surviving relative is unable to to handle the probate, the debt, or the taxes on a home. The goal being to generate some income from the house for both the surviving relative and for you as the investor.  Before renting the house for her, I'd want her to sign a quit claim deed granting me all of her interest, if any, in the home, or at least majority interest -otherwise about the time you get it set up and running, she is likely to want to cut you out of any income from the home.

It may be technically true that neither of you are lawful owner's of the home. However, no one is likely to complain and Medicare seldom forecloses for what they are owed.  Unless there exists a relative with a superior interest to the surviving sister, there is little danger. Still I'd take care to be scrupulously truthful in your rental agreement about who the owner of record is.  An example of a rental agreement that I use when renting abandoned homes in which I have no ownership, nor permission from the owner, can be found at;
https://www.biggerpockets.com/member-blogs/12388/86773-renting-real-estate-without-the-owners-consent-isn-t-that-fraud

Renting a non-probated home is a long term play, generally requiring over 5 years in Iowa to eventually acquire title by filing a Quiet Title action in court and then claiming the home as yours under the Iowa Adverse Possession statute. In some instances, a Quit Claim Deed from the surviving relative makes it possible to Quiet Title even sooner by claiming that the Quit Claim Deed gave you color of title. Iowa Code 560

If the home is in such disrepair that it is essentially unlivable, then just rent it as a lot with a currently unlivable home. See the link to the rental agreement I use above.  You can generally offer a lot with power, water, and sewer for half the rent the home would bring. A surprising number of people will pay that just for a place to camp, or park their RV or Motorhome.  I'd then make clear that XX% of the rent paid to can be used for materials needed to improve the home -if the renter provides the labor needed to do repairs. Advertise it as a handyman's special in a Craigslist, Facebook, or Offerup post.  At half rent, you'll get more people interested than you can rent to. Choose wisely, most responder's make claims and promises that they don't keep.  

The result of this plan is that, once the home is livable, it produces a monthly income for both you and the surviving relative while paying all its expenses, and maintenance, taxes. And this plan to rent the home costs you little to nothing out of pocket, but in 5 to 6 years, you can expect to own it free and clear. The Medicare Lien will be subject to your state's statute of limitations. Depending on how old it is now, it is likely to get wiped off the title when you do the the Quiet Title /Adverse Possession action.  

@Ray Hayward,  in most cases the municipal property tax liens on real property are also subject to statutes of limitations.   They don't last forever.  Since the property tax liens exceed $100,000 it would be worth the cost of a good Mass. attorney to know if/when the property tax lien expires.

Hello Ray Hayward,

Pleasure to hear from you! The correct answer to your 1st question is that I do not know, -whether a lien holder can do an environmental study to protect their lien, but a lawyer familiar with your State laws should be able to tell you. However, since the owner of record has died and no probate has been done, it is difficult to picture anyone complaining about an environmental study being done on the property. Without a court appointed administrator or executor, who would have standing to sue you?

Perhaps consult an attorney, but I'd be inclined just do the environmental study without buying any one's lien. Then I'd use anything negative found in the study to convince lien holders that their liens are worth even less than they thought.

If the widow has no plans to do anything with the property, she may complain about you trespassing on 'her' family property, but what are the odds that she'd file a lawsuit?  Even if she were inclined to file, she has no standing to complain of trespass on a property that she doesn't own. Check that with your attorney. I doubt that you'd need any legal cover.   It may be cheap enough to buy a junior lien.  But, unless an attorney can give you a clear and well reasoned statement of some likely and adverse result from trespassing necessary to do an environmental study, I'd just do the study like I owned the place.

If one Environmental company won't do the study without your name on the title, find another.  If you can tell a decent story, you'll find an Environmental Co. that will do the study without verifying the details of ownership.

As to your second Question, "if I convinced the Town to foreclose, would I be able to circumvent the Bank Lien #1?" 

Verify when the 1st Mortgage (and each lien) is beyond the Statute of Limitations.  See https://www.nutter.com/trending-newsroom-publications-Statute-of-Limitations-for-Mortgages-Referencing-Maturity-Date-of-Underlying-Debt-04-17-2015 If the date the 1st mortgage becomes due in full is specified, or if the underlying note specifies a due date, then the mortgage is only enforceable for 5 years past the specified date.  You mentioned above that the 1st mortgage was only for 5 years and could be already unenforceable.   Verify that with a RE Attorney. If no date is specified, in either the mortgage or the underlying note, then Mass Law presumes that the mortgage runs for 30 years from the date it was initiated. It is then enforceable for 5 years after the mortgage end date (35 years from the start date).

However, also be sure that you understand the effect of the Town foreclosing its tax lien. In my state, WA, when our county forecloses its tax lien, the buyer at the tax foreclosure auction gets a deed to the property free and clear of all previous liens. The prior mortgage and/or liens are wiped off the title. If a lien holder wants to protect their interest, then the lien holder must pay the property tax. Brother, I'm unfamiliar with Mass. laws and tax foreclosure, so that is also something to check with a local RE attorney.

Good luck