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All Forum Posts by: Davido Davido

Davido Davido has started 8 posts and replied 525 times.

Post: Ask me (a CPA) anything about taxes relating to real estate

Davido DavidoPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Olympia, WA
  • Posts 543
  • Votes 310

@Nicholas Aiola, Thanks for your reply and sending good luck. You did respond to a similar question in a different post cited below (page 4), as did several other tax professionals. The essence of your own comment was;

"It doesn't matter that you "haven't spent a dime" of the money collected ... because, ... money went into YOUR bank account as a result of YOUR business activity." Emphasis in your original post, -No authority given.

The other tax professionals who replied, offered varying rationales (some citing; the totality of the circumstances test, or constructive receipt, or economic performance test, transferee liability, economic benefit, etc.) and a few pros offered rationales similar to yours (“if you're renting property you're controlling that's your income to report”). Even though each professional arrived at the same conclusion you did, (that I have a duty to report the rents and a tax liability for them), no one provided applicable authority. It is the lack of authority and lack of consistency in the legal analysis that I found troubling. It seemed worth trying again.

Perhaps you did not notice, but based on the replies received in my other post, https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/51/topics/743817-unusual-tax-question-is-this-money-for-nothing-is-it-tax-free?page=1 I went ahead and created structures (a Trust, and LLC's) that now completely separate the rents I've collected from my own accounts. Now, once the rents I collect from abandoned real estate are deposited into segregated accounts I no longer have access to them. The only way I'll get them is by court order. I have also dropped any hope of borrowing from the accounts in which they are held.

Thus, even if I have learned nothing else, you and the other tax professionals of BP, have moved me toward a more professional handling of the rental income that I am collecting from abandoned properties.

The following analysis, and the authorities provided, are the result of input from you and others on my prior post. My analysis is included here with no expectation of response. It is provided for your review, or not, with the idea that the authorities used and conclusions drawn may help other readers to understand the rationale for my position that; I have neither a reporting duty nor an income tax liability for the rents I’ve collected. The only authorities I’ve found, require individuals to pay tax on, and to report, only their own income. Here are the citations.

I understand that the IRS may presume that all money deposited in my bank accounts during a given period constitutes taxable income. Bank deposits provide prima facie evidence of income. Tokarski v. Commissioner, 87 T.C. 74, 77 (1986).The IRS is not required to prove the likely source of the income. Estate of Mason v. Commissioner, 64 T.C. 651, 657 (1975), affd. 566 F.2d 2 (6th Cir. 1977). It is the taxpayer (me) who shoulders the burden of establishing that bank deposits “should be excluded from income or allowed as deductions.

However, even when I was depositing the rents directly into my own bank account, the fact that I possessed the rents did not conclusively create a tax liability for me. When proper documentation is presented the Government must take into account any nontaxable source (the unused property of another person) or deductible expenses regarding bank deposits.DiLeo v. Commissioner, 96 T.C. 858, @868 (1991), affd. 959 F.2d 16 (2d Cir. 1992).

Merely holding the funds of another person in my own account is generally not a taxable act.

  • "[A] taxpayer need not treat as income moneys which he did not receive under a claim of right, which were not his to keep, and which he was required to transmit to someone else as a mere conduit."
  • Diamond v. Commissioner, 56 T.C. 530, 541 (1971), affd. 492 F.2d 286 (7th Cir. 1974).

In my instance, I am not receiving rents under a claim of right, the rents are not mine to keep, and I am required to transmit them to the owner (upon demand). In interpreting what constitutes a claim of right the IRS has stated;

  • Section 1341 of the Internal Revenue Code (“Computation of tax where taxpayer restores substantial amount held under claim of right”) The claim of right section applies only when a taxpayer properly reports an amount of income in one taxable year and later repays all or a portion of that same amount in a later taxable year because the taxpayer, in fact, did not have an unrestricted right to that income. Rev. Rul. 2004-29

I need not treat the rents I collect as income because I am acting as a mere conduit and to the property owner.  However, since the property owner(s) or heirs are currently unavailable to accept delivery, I am holding the rents in what amounts to a constructive trust. The trust doctrine can apply even though the arrangement does not constitute a trust under state law.

  • “[T]here are no specific words of trust in the present case but we conclude . . . that as to all funds received a trust was created…”
  • Ford Dealers Advertising Fund, Inc., 55 TC 761, Dec. 30,654, aff’d, CA-5, 72-1 USTC 9228, 456 F2d 255, nonacq., 1974-2 CB 5, and 1974-2 CB 64

In order to avail oneself of the “trust” doctrine, a taxpayer must satisfy two requirements. First, the taxpayer must show that he has a legally enforceable obligation to pay the amount received for a specified purpose (the rents I’ve collected are the lawful property of the owner). The second requirement of the “trust fund” doctrine is that the taxpayer must be obligated to spend (or preserve) the received funds for the benefit of someone other than the taxpayer.

  • Ford Dealers Advertising Fund, Inc., 55 TC 761, Dec. 30,654, aff’d, CA-5, 72-1 USTC ¶9228, 456 F2d 255, nonacq., 1974-2 CB 5, and 1974-2 CB 64 (Holding that payments received by a corporation from Ford dealers with the agreement to spend the funds on advertising, constituted funds held in trust, and were not income to the Corporation and setting two basis for their holding.)

In considering various doctrines dealing with the funds received for another, tax law researcher John B. Palmer observed;

  • “While the “claim of right” doctrine, the receipt of deposits cases, and the agency, conduit and trust fund authorities all deal with different situations, they have as a common premise the notion that a payment cannot be income if the taxpayer does not have the power to control whether it will retain the payment.”
  • Quoted from the Conclusion of - Tax Accounting; By John B. Palmer III, Jan & Feb 2009 “When Can Payments Subject To An Offsetting Obligation Be Excluded From Income?”

It cannot rationally be said that I have the lawful power to retain income which the law specifies to be the property of another person. My actions qualify as holding these rents in trust. It is only in very limited contexts, such as assignments of income that;

  • “The power to dispose of income is the equivalent of ownership of it.” -and will be benefit enough to trigger taxation. Helvering v. Horst, 311 U.S. 112, 118, 61 S.Ct. 144, 147, 85 L.Ed. 75 (1940).

However, Court's ruling in Helvering is not applicable to my situation, nor to any trust situation, where the rents are neither acknowledged nor claimed as mine, and therefore there can be no attempt by me to assign the income (rents) to anyone else.

The only circumstance, in which the Courts will hold one individual liable to pay tax on income lawfully belonging to another, is when the taxpayer uses the other person’s income as though it were his own. An enlightening example, is the owner of a corporation diverting unreported corporate funds to a safety deposit box, mixing in his own funds, and then spending $10’s of thousands of the corporate funds for his own personal investments, and use.

  • “(W)hen cash, as here, is delivered …in a manner which allows the recipient freedom to dispose of it at will [it is income to the user], even though it may have been obtained by fraud and his freedom to use it may be assailable by someone with a better title to it");
  • Dawkins v. Commissioner of Internal Revenue, 238 F.2d 174, 178 (8th Cir.1956) (citing Rutkin.

According to the IRS itself, tax is imposed on the reporting individual’s own income;

  • “In most cases, you must include in your gross income all amounts you receive as rent.” IRS Publication 527 Rents (Emphasis mine)

In my case the ownership of the income at issue (rents) is controlled by State law. Here is what the currently valid ruling of the Washington State Supreme Court says regarding the rents I have collected.

  • This opinion but states the obvious. Persons who take possession of real property (the property in question happened to be a store building) without consent of the owner are deemed to be tenants by sufferance, and will be required to pay reasonable rent for the time they actually occupied the premises.”
  • Howard v. Edgren, 385 P.2d 41, 62 Wash. 2d 4 (1963) Citing RCW 59.04.050

And here is the Statute which our Supreme Court interpreted in the case cited above.

  • “Whenever any person obtains possession of premises without the consent of the owner or other person having the right to give said possession, he or she shall be deemed a tenant by sufferance merely, and shall be liable to pay reasonable rent for the actual time he or she occupied the premises, and shall forthwith on demand surrender his or her said possession to the owner or person who had the right of possession before said entry, and all his or her right to possession of said premises shall terminate immediately upon said demand.” RCW 59.04.050 Tenancy by Sufferance

Further the Washington State ejectment statute holds that rents from real property can be themselves “real property” and belong exclusively to the owner of record. Even a mortgage holder, is not entitled to rents from real estate until a foreclosure has been completed.

  • Mortgagee cannot maintain action for Possession, (or) to collect mortgaged, pledged, or assigned rents and profits
  • “Until paid, the rents and profits of real property constitute real property for the purposes of mortgages, trust deeds, or assignments whether or not said rents and profits have accrued. The provisions of RCW [requiring conveyances of interest in rents to be recorded] as now or hereafter amended shall be applicable to such rents and profits, and such rents and profits are excluded from *Article 62A.9 RCW. [Creating Rights for Secured Parties]” RCW 7.28.230

Since, the laws of my state specify that the rents I collect without the consent of the owner constitute real property which belongs to the owner -no matter who collects them, it is hard to see how I could claim them, or be liable for tax on them. In WA State, ownership of the rents is not determined by who did the work (the business activity), but by Statute.

While the rents are certainly income, -they are income only for the property owner. As a matter of law, they are not my income. I have not stolen them (which requires an intent to deprive the owner of them). And I have not used them (which would create a tax liability for me).

  • “[I]f (the taxpayer) received an economic benefit from the Swiss Funds, they are liable for tax on at least whatever benefit they received.”
  • Rutkin v. United States, 343 U.S. 130, 137, 72 S.Ct. 571, 575, 96 L.Ed. 833 (1952)

The fact that I may expect or hope to eventually acquire ownership of the rents still does not create a current reporting duty or tax liability on me. The rents are the current property (unrealized income) of another person. Indeed, it would take a court decision to transfer title of the property or of the rents to me. If a court should so decide, only then would the rents become my income.

  • “The liability for income tax ultimately can be fairly determined without resort to mere estimates, assumptions, and speculation. When the profit, if any, is actually realized, the taxpayer will be required to respond.” Commissioner v. Logan 283 U.S. 404, 51 S.Ct. 550, 75 L.Ed. 1143

Based on the above authorities, I am liable only for tax on my income. The rents I collect and hold in trust from abandoned real estate are lawfully the property (income) of the owners on title. I can find no Statute, regulation, or court case that creates a reporting duty or tax liability on me for the rents that I collect for another person, -unless, I use those funds for my own benefit. Anyone can help me out, if they can show, why this reasoning is faulty, or the authorities relied upon, are inappropriate.

Other authorities.

  • We the people granted our government authority to tax “income” (not business activity).
  • “The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived,…” 16th Amendment to the US Constitution

Our elected representatives then gave the IRS authority to tax “income” (not business activity.)

  • “There is hereby imposed on the taxable income of every individual … a tax determined in accordance with the following table:” 26 USC Sect 1 Tax on Individuals: (c)

Our Congress further defined what “taxable income” is;

  • “gross income less allowable deductions”, 26 USC Sect 63.

And “Gross Income” is defined as;

  • “all income from whatever source derived”, 26 USC Sect 61.

Which specifically includes rents.

  • “Gross income includes rental income received or accrued for occupancy of real estate.”
  • 26 CFR Sect 1.61.8 (a) Rents; & 26 USC Sect 61.1 (a)(5) Rents

Post: Ask me (a CPA) anything about taxes relating to real estate

Davido DavidoPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Olympia, WA
  • Posts 543
  • Votes 310

@Nicholas Aiola, can you agree, or state why you disagree, with my personal conclusion that I have no tax liability or reporting requirements for rents that I’ve collected for six years from real estate belonging to other people, without their permission?

I believe that I have no reporting requirements or tax liability for these rents because none of the properties from which the rents have been collected are legally mine, because I have not received beneficial use of the rents, and because all the rents collected have been kept strictly segregated from my personal funds.

Background: Each property appears to have been abandoned by the owner of record. In each case extensive searches have failed to locate the owner(s) of record, or the search for the owner found the owner to be deceased and failed to locate any heirs. I personally search the neighborhood and nearby cities gathering (and recording) the information from neighbors, lien holders, attorneys, tax authorities, title companies, relatives and other persons known to have been associated with the owners of record. In addition, several online skip trace companies and in some cases private investigators are used in attempts to locate the property owners.

When the owner can be located I either negotiate for a deed or move on. When the owner can not be located, I or my crew occupy the property and then rent it. I currently have possession of the properties, but no claim to title.  Under the laws of my State (WA), all the apparently abandoned real estate and all the rents collected from these abandoned properties remain the property of the owners of record.

I am currently renting one dozen apparently abandoned parcels of real estate. Mostly they are vacant lots improved only with power, water and sewer -which are rentable for several hundred/mo. Several of the abandoned properties do have derelict SFH's and other structures that are being slowly preserved/repaired with materials paid for from the rents collected and with labor provided (free) by the renter(s). I see to it that the owner's property taxes are paid from the rents collected. At this point, it has been over six years since I rented the first of these properties. A total of over $30,000 in rents have accumulated in the segregated accounts that I caused to be opened.

Originally, all rents went into a local checking account opened by me in my name. Several BP commentators suggested that arrangement was not optimal. Therefore, all the rents have recently been removed from accounts held in my name. Several acquaintances worked together to create a Wyoming trust -"The Lost Owner Trust". My acquaintances are jointly the trust administrators, the property owners are jointly the beneficial owners of the trust. In addition, my acquaintances created 3 separate Wyoming LLC's. These LLC's are each owned by the "Lost Owner Trust". A separate Wyoming bank account has been opened for each LLC.

I am the person who sees to it that rents are deposited into the Wyoming bank accounts controlled by the trust, but I am not otherwise involved in the trusts, or the LLC's, and I am no longer a signatory on any of the bank accounts holding rents collected from these abandoned properties. Once the rents are deposited, I no longer have direct or indirect access to the rents. I do expect to eventually obtain a court order granting me title to each these abandoned properties through the WA laws of Adverse Possession. If and when that occurs, I am also likely become the beneficial owner of the rents collected.

I currently have no claim to title on any of the abandoned properties at issue here. At this point, I have paid no income tax, reported no income, and filed no documentation on any tax return regarding any of the abandoned properties. Under the laws of my State all rents that any party collects on real estate without the owner’s permission remain the property of the owner (or owner’s heirs) and are payable upon demand.

Naturally, if these properties and/or the rents collected from them eventually become mine, reporting of all the rents collected will be required and income tax will then become due.

Until one or more of these properties or the rents collected from them are declared to be mine by a court of law, or until I use the rents collected in some personally beneficial way, I believe that I have no reporting duty or tax liability for the rents collected until,. Do you agree?   

Post: Western Washington kitsap , mason county investing

Davido DavidoPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Olympia, WA
  • Posts 543
  • Votes 310

@Jonathan Gragg,  In regard to your question of,

  • "Should I convert the shop on the property to a ADU 2 bed 1 bath do all the construction myself and they are renting for about $1600 . Or should I save my money and invest in already built property."

Run the numbers for both.  I highly recommend using the BP Calculators, like the Rental Property Calculator, and Rehab Estimator Calculator.

https://www.biggerpockets.com/real-estate-investment-calculator

Once you have an idea of the return from building out the ADU, it will be possible to rationally compare those figures to the return available from properties in your local market that meet your investment goals.

Having multiple income sources from the same location does have some time saving, convenience and other management advantages. So I would look carefully at how the ADU figures come out. Best wishes

Post: Sold a property for $66,673 net profit in <4 weeks

Davido DavidoPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Olympia, WA
  • Posts 543
  • Votes 310

@Josh Miller, thank you for a delightful helpful post

Post: Housing for Poor People

Davido DavidoPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Olympia, WA
  • Posts 543
  • Votes 310

@Lillian Burke, Your link to the German Documentary on American homelessness, brought to mind this local TV news documentary about my home town of Seattle, -Which is rather dramatically titled "Seattle is Dying" 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpAi70WWBlw&t=93s&has_verified=1

In regard to looking for,  "...cost-effective, market solutions to the problems."  

One idea that is working for me, is taking over abandoned improved real estate, (properties which the owner has intentionally walked away from and/or can not be located) and renting the property.   Usually, an abandoned property is quite derelict and unfit for human habitation.   However, these properties do have valuable improvements, like water, sewer, and power.   Such properties are in high demand by those living in RV's.   Here is a link to my blog about renting out such RE. 

https://www.biggerpockets.com/member-blogs/12388/86773-renting-real-estate-without-the-owners-consent-isn-t-that-fraud

And here are links to a couple short videos that discuss the demand, at least here on the West Coast, for places to park RV's.

In the San Francisco area, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iW0YuvGJjo

In Seattle area, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aiiVuh8NvI





 

Post: How long does probate take in California

Davido DavidoPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Olympia, WA
  • Posts 543
  • Votes 310

@Simon Ruiz,  There are other options to waiting for the bank to foreclose.   One is to acquire a Quit Claim Deed from the heirs (since they are not interested in the property).  Then rent the property while you negotiate with the trustee to bring the mortgage current or to obtain a short sale.   Renting the property will produce some cash flow, and allow you to work on putting the property through probate to get clear title; or you could just rent it for 3 years, then file a quiet title action to obtain a court order granting you clear title.

Post: Probate Property Question?!

Davido DavidoPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Olympia, WA
  • Posts 543
  • Votes 310

@JaMario Price, the answer is yes to your question, 

"Is there a way I can take over the payments with this property and just give the son $10k? I dont want to wholesale this property, I want to keep it for my self to either rent or put on the mls for a bigger profit."

If you are reasonably certain that the son has inherited the property, and you are content to rent the property for cash flow, then go ahead and offer the son $10k for signing his interest over to you via a "Quit Claim Deed'.  Then go ahead and rent the property and enjoy your cash flow.

However, understand that renting a property has fewer requirements than for listing the property on the MLS. You do not need clear title to rent, but clear title is expected when listing a property. In either case, whether you decide to rent or to resell, first determine if the deceased owner had a will. If there was a will, then the will controls the estate. The son might not have inherited that property.

If there was no will, then the Georgia laws for Intestate Succession control who has the right to the property.

http://ga.elaws.us/law/53-2%7C1    (if the property is in Georgia)

If the son is the only heir, then you can make whatever deal you want with the son.  If you intend to rent the property all you need is a Quit Claim Deed, a Land Contract, a Lease Option, or even just possession.   But if your plan is to list the property for resale, then you will generally need to put it through probate.   It is possible to resell Real Estate without clear title, but the pool of potential buyers would be tiny, compared to listing the property. 

If you decide to rent the property without putting the estate through probate, then Georgia Law permits you get a court order to clear or "Quiet the Title" in your name, after 7 years, if you have "Color of Title"  (a deed) and if you continuously use the property as your own for those 7 years.  Alternatively you can obtain clear title after 20 years of using the property if you do not have "Color of Title" (if you had mere possession and did not lease from the son or pay him any portion of the rents).

Color of title would be a deed from someone (the son) who you have reason to believe had the right to transfer the property to you.  So find out who is entitled to the property under Georgia law (was there a will and are there other descendants?),  then decide whether to put the property through probate, or use it without clear title.  Best wishes.

Post: Enforceability of Corporate Guarantee?

Davido DavidoPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Olympia, WA
  • Posts 543
  • Votes 310

@William Yeh,  Thank you for the update.  Very helpful

Post: Can Social Security take a house as payment for nursing home?

Davido DavidoPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Olympia, WA
  • Posts 543
  • Votes 310

Is there a lien on the property?   If no lien, and the transfer of title takes place before the lien, then the SS Administration will not be able to sieze the house -unless they can prove in court that the transfer to you was done far below market with the intent to avoid their debt.

Post: Bankruptcy property question in Georgia

Davido DavidoPosted
  • Rental Property Investor
  • Olympia, WA
  • Posts 543
  • Votes 310

Hello @Morris Lucas, Here is a thought.   Rent it out until it is foreclosed.  Give the current owner what it takes to move on, but inform him there is no equity and you can not stop the foreclosure.  Get the owner to sign over a Quit Claim Deed from him to "The Holder of this Deed".  Hold the quit claim.  If the property is going to be foreclosed there is no sense putting it in your name, but having the owner sign away his interest adds helpful finality to his move.

When you have possession, or know you will have possession, advertise the house as a month to month rental making clear it is in need of work.   Consider holding a "rental auction", looking for the prospective tenant who will and can pay the most rent or who can and will do the improvements you want.  Get the best price you can for the condition it is in.  Include in your rental agreement a clause specifying that the mortgage is delinquent and the rental agreement must terminate if the property is foreclosed.

Then decide whether you want to rent the property until it is foreclosed, or perhaps you can renegotiate the mortgage amount or terms to suit you.   If mortgage terms become profitable, then manage the renter so that he/she makes the necessary improvements.  Improving the property will likely require budgeting a percentage of the monthly rent for the materials.  If your rental process focuses on finding a tenant who is willing and able to do the work, then your renter will be providing the labor to improve your property.