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All Forum Posts by: Daniel Qin

Daniel Qin has started 5 posts and replied 14 times.

Quote from @Paul Welden:

@Daniel Qin

The bank does NOT have a contract with the contractor on an FHA 203k.

The customer/borrower will have a contract with the contractor, in addition to the HOCA (Homeowner Contractor Agreement). 

Recommend using a contractor with experience with 203k's such as a contractor with the designation as a Certified 203k Contractor

You're only as strong as your weakest link ... select your partners wisely. 

Thanks Paul. I just confirmed with the mortgage company and that’s what they said as well. Looks like I need a contract with them, period. 

This is my first time using a FHA 203 loan to rehab, for those of investors or contractors have experience using renovation loan, do you still have a contract between you and the contractor? I understand since the bank is essentially paying the contractor with multiple draws upon work progress, they will have a contract with the contractor. Since I don't pay the contractor out of my pocket, do I need a contract with the contractor? What should I make sure to include in that contract?

This is my first time using a FHA 203 loan to rehab, for those of investors or contractors have experience using renovation loan, do you still have a contract between you and the contractor? I understand since the bank is essentially paying the contractor with multiple draws upon work progress, they will have a contract with the contractor. Since I don't pay the contractor out of my pocket, do I need a contract with the contractor? What should I make sure to include in that contract?

Quote from @Greg Larson:
Quote from @Daniel Qin:

Hey Greg, if you are still looking for one, some mortgage lenders have loans that wrap in rehab cost. That might be something you want to look into. The rates are higher than primary residence loans but much lower than hard money loans. As far as I know they can do 30 year fixed, and if you don't like the rate you can cash out refinance after a few months.


Do you know what they would require for a down payment amount?  I would love to go this route but am being stalled with capital.  I'm working with a total of $40k capital and have to keep some in reserves after the purchase.

Minimum 15% of the purchase price and rehab cost, but just keep in mind the lower the down payment, the higher the rate and point fees. I’m in the process of working with them myself. Happy to connect you.

Hey Greg, if you are still looking for one, some mortgage lenders have loans that wrap in rehab cost. That might be something you want to look into. The rates are higher than primary residence loans but much lower than hard money loans. As far as I know they can do 30 year fixed, and if you don't like the rate you can cash out refinance after a few months.

Post: Financing options for the second house

Daniel QinPosted
  • Posts 14
  • Votes 4
Quote from @Wesley Sherow:

Daniel, 

FHA programs are truly amazing. Though not technically meant for real estate investors, it's often used as such due to it's looser requirements pertaining to the number of units that you can purchase through it. Fortunately there's many strategies you may consider.

1. Value add properties on a construction loan. You'll pay 20% of the lower purchase price of a distressed property, and using a construction loan get 100% of the renovation costs financed. Overall the cost to entry on this type of investment is lower, and you can refinance your money out once the property is done. 
2. Hard Money loan for closing costs. 75-80% LTV traditional financing, and 20-25% down payment financed also at 10-15% interest rate. Prioritize repayment of your hard money loan, consider doing so off of increased rents, etc. You'll still need a value add investment to succeed with this.

If you're willing to leave the city and invest in Upstate NY such as I do, the barrier to entry is VERY low, and easily that reluctancy on a 20% down payment on a $1-3M property becomes negligible, as properties upstate of similar size go for $200-500k. 


Thanks Wesley. Great suggestions. 20% of a distressed multi-family is still a sizable amount of money. I don't think this gets talked much, but without VA loan, the best strategy to scale with low down payment is to get SFH instead of Multi Family, especially in the high cost of living area. I just have to get creative to househack in a SFH.

Curious how your experience with Upstate NY goes? 

Post: Financing options for the second house

Daniel QinPosted
  • Posts 14
  • Votes 4

Hello everyone, apologies if this has been asked before, but based on my research, for 2-4 units house, I don't see any good financing products that have down payment requirement as low as FHA. That's a problem if I'm buying 2nd house after a year. Am I missing something here, any suggestions?

Quote from @J. Mitchell Bernier:

@Daniel Qin So we came up with this by estimating likely scenarios and OMFG scenarios on prices, rates, and rents. What we want to see is does the deal meet our metrics from day one at current situations and how does look if these things happen. What we really want to see is that even in the worst case we are still in above water on a equity position and we are at least breaking even on our cashflow. If we are underwater on equity and our cash flow is negative after running these scenarios, we pass on the deal. 

Just how we look at it for our market, but makes me sleep good at night. 

Hope this helps! 


 That's awesome. The appreciation/depreciation part is very easy to overlook, and it becomes very dangerous if the deal is over-leveraged from the beginning. Thanks for sharing!

Quote from @J. Mitchell Bernier:

I somewhat agree with the whole "buy real estate and wait" mantra, but I do think right now is a good time to sharpen your underwriting skills and really go in depth on a potential project. For example we have been running our numbers based on market rents staying flat, going down by 5%, going down by 10%,or going down by 15%. Then we are also running numbers at interest rates of 6%, 7%, 8%. Finally we are seeing what the deal looks like if we have  0% appreciation, 5% depreciation, or 10% depreciation. Now this makes it really hard for a deal to pencil out, but when one does we know we are excellent shape for whatever may come. 

Hope this helps!  


 This is very interesting way to create a margin of safety. How do you decide the passing line, are you looking for a deals that can still perform in the worst of all metrics?

With the market cooling down, it is possible the purchase price continues to go down. For investors who estimated ARV at the time of market peak, they are running the risk of having a lower ARV than their estimate when it comes to refinance months down the road. What are some ways to mitigate this risk? Thanks!