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All Forum Posts by: Daniel Pearson

Daniel Pearson has started 8 posts and replied 18 times.

Post: Anyone actually buying rental properties in Utah and cash flowing

Daniel PearsonPosted
  • Flipper/Rehabber
  • Eagle Mountain, UT
  • Posts 19
  • Votes 11

Wouldn't that be the gig? When we first built this house we're in, if we had been able to quickly buy and build another one exactly as this one is and rented it out, we would be making ~$3500-4000 in gross rents right now off of it. We seriously considered trying to do it. 

Two things stopped us. One, it would be a non-conforming duplex because we wouldn't be living in it, risking municipal action against us. That is the lesser of the two crimes--with how fast this area is growing (projected to grow from 36,000 pop to over 120k pop in the next 5 ish years, probably already closer to 45k or 50k pop now)--we really doubt the city would have done anything to us at all. There are 10 or more active builders just inside the city limits pushing out houses as fast as they can and demand is still going up. 

The other thing is my wife had serious post partum depression, then the lockdowns really pushed it into just chronic depression for the entire year last year, and part of this year. That was pretty insurmountable, all we could do was work to stay afloat as a couple. It's kind of a miracle we finished our ADU throughout that as is.

But now we look around us and kind of just sigh at the lost opportunities. 

Edit: The 4plex I ran my analysis above on went up in the Zillow estimate by $5k since I wrote that 3 hours ago. I would guess it's pretty spot on to how fast prices are climbing here lol

Post: Anyone actually buying rental properties in Utah and cash flowing

Daniel PearsonPosted
  • Flipper/Rehabber
  • Eagle Mountain, UT
  • Posts 19
  • Votes 11

My wife and I have flipped homes in Utah along the Wasatch Front for a few years. We were never able to find a home that we could just BRRRR, due to lending requirements vs income, or lack of ingenuity / knowledge. Since then we've bought a home and are hacking it. Basement ADU covers our mortgage in our 2019 build. We now are in a position that we could possibly buy, but I'm looking all over Idaho (because we have family there and are familiar with it) and not finding but analyzing lots of on-market properties.

My question is, how on earth are people buying in Utah and getting any decent cash flow? My dream for years has been a 4plex I could drive by and check on without necessarily managing it, but I'm not seeing how people can rent for $1200-1500/unit and pay $850-950k for a 4plex and still manage to cashflow in any decent kind of way? Like there's a 4plex my wife and I used to live in in Pleasant Grove. It's not for sale. But the zestimate on it is 875k, the rent income estimate on BP is 1375/mo per unit. 2br 1ba 1100sq ft units. With 5558 % repair/capex/vacancy/pm it's only cashflowing $300/month ($299). https://www.biggerpockets.com/...

Are people okay with these numbers? I'm really curious. Is it just me that this is too risky? How could someone like me with gross income of roughly 6500/month possibly get a deal in an area like this?

Post: Asking for names and birth dates of minors on lease

Daniel PearsonPosted
  • Flipper/Rehabber
  • Eagle Mountain, UT
  • Posts 19
  • Votes 11

Thank you all for the responses. After reading your responses, we decided to put it on the lease and have it worded such that Tenant is the responsible party, and they and their children are listed as occupants. We did ask for names and birthdates. 

Post: Asking for names and birth dates of minors on lease

Daniel PearsonPosted
  • Flipper/Rehabber
  • Eagle Mountain, UT
  • Posts 19
  • Votes 11

Hi all! 

My wife and I have an ADU in our basement and we're getting ready to get our third family in there as our current tenants are moving soon. We're wondering if there's any law that would prohibit us from requesting (not requiring) the birthdates and names of children that will be coming with the new tenants? I know the fair housing laws state that we can't require documents of minors. The reason we're asking is we would like to be able to get them little gifts on their birthdays.

Thanks!

Post: How to structure this partnership

Daniel PearsonPosted
  • Flipper/Rehabber
  • Eagle Mountain, UT
  • Posts 19
  • Votes 11

I like what Ola said. My brother and I basically did this throughout. Depending on how a flip went, we'd meet and discuss the next one. As we took on more at a time (we had four flips going at the same time at one point), the adjustments would come a couple houses down the line, but we always did our best to make sure the other party felt treated fairly, even if it meant compromising a little. 

Post: How to structure this partnership

Daniel PearsonPosted
  • Flipper/Rehabber
  • Eagle Mountain, UT
  • Posts 19
  • Votes 11

If I were you I would do a 50/50 split and include an hourly wage in your costs, or price per project, then include those costs in reimbursement from revenue. 

It may end up making you the same amount of money, but it looks fair. It could also end up making you more money. But the important part is that it'll set a tone for the business relationship that is fair. 

Post: How to structure this partnership

Daniel PearsonPosted
  • Flipper/Rehabber
  • Eagle Mountain, UT
  • Posts 19
  • Votes 11

How good is your relationship with your brother? That is vital in this kind of thing. 

My brother and I partnered on flips in 2017 and have done ~12 homes together. We didn't start out with anything more than a verbal agreement. 

He is a real estate agent, but we got the deals through his friend who mentored us. Initially we did equal portions of work and capital, and we split profits 50/50. I'm not nearly as handy as my brother, but my wife is. 

As time went on we learned (quickly) that doing all the work ourselves really sucks, so we hired more things out and accepted a lower profit (really though, if we'd paid ourselves hourly it would be a higher profit). 

Eventually my brother quit his day job and did flips as well as a couple of other businesses full-time (I mentioned he's an RA, he's also a professional photographer, and started an RV rental company). 

This allowed him a little more time than my wife and I had, and being more handy he spent more time at the houses working on them. 

My wife and I fell into the role of providing capital and hiring/managing subs. There was overlap, but because he was now living on the profits he wasn't able to reinvest as much. We didn't touch the profits but funneled them back into flipping. 

He grew tired of working so hard and feeling like he was getting a smaller cut, so we decided with him that he would get a base wage for hours spent working on the homes. Something like $30/hour. Might have been $20, I can't remember. 

There have been tense times, and it has strained our relationship. We've also made an absolute killing on some of them and celebrated at $100/plate restaurants (Ruth's Chris Steakhouse ftw). 

We did finally create LLCs, but our lawyer sucked and so we didn't really do much with them. We've done 1099s, etc. to make sure we're squared away for taxes. We _do_ have an accountant (CPA). 

Right now we're not doing a flip together for the first time in a while. We each did one separately this last fall and those worked out well. We will likely work together on more as we get them. Utah's market is insane though so it's pretty slim pickings for flips that we want to take on. 


The bottom line is this. If you have a good, mutually respectful and loving relationship with your brother, it'll work out. There were times when things were stressful. We had to lend them sometimes upwards of $10,000 to help them make ends meet after he quit because he didn't have savings and isn't great with his money. He always paid us back, but if he hadn't we wouldn't have cried ourselves to sleep at night, money comes and money goes. Family is important. 

Both parties must realize two things: Business is business, and family is family. Don't let business decisions affect your relationship--sometimes you're going to have to decide to do something that will be taken hard, most often it's conversations that must be had that could be offensive. And if there's a chance that a business decision will ruin your relationship, don't do it. I recommend a lot of prayer as you decide how to proceed with every aspect and ever decision.

Sometimes the outcome won't be perfectly fair. You have to be willing to take hits sometimes. You will lose money sometimes and if you can't forgive and try again, it won't work out.

With the money we made from this arrangement we were able to build a new construction home for $300,000, 2000 sq ft finished (5 bed 3 bath) then use a good chunk of that money to finish the basement as an ADU, making our home a 3500 sq ft 8 bed 5 bath, 2 full kitchens, 2 laundry home. We charge about $1400/month for the rental with no utilities because it's hard to separate who is using what. But that makes our portion of mortgage and utilities roughly $600-800, depending. After we refi we can expect our portion of the mortgage to drop to $0, and just pay utilities, because based on comps our home is already worth close to $500k. (Again, Utah's housing market.)

TL;DR: If you have a good relationship and both are willing to take hits and roll with the punches without getting offended and hating on each other, it can work out and the profits and gains can be incredibly good. But you must both be willing to work on it and through it. The hardest part of a familial business partnership is the family aspect. But it can also make the business work where it might not have. 

Post: Looking for a handyman in a hurry for chimney, windows repair

Daniel PearsonPosted
  • Flipper/Rehabber
  • Eagle Mountain, UT
  • Posts 19
  • Votes 11

My wife and I partnered with my brother and his wife on our first flip. We are under contract to sell, got back the FHA loan appraisal requirements and we are looking for a handyman in a hurry. We have a second home already under contract and plan on doing this for the foreseeable future, so we're looking for someone we could work with again and again. Hoping to make enough to buy rental properties without financing at some point.

Thanks,

Daniel