All Forum Posts by: Curt Bixel

I tried posting a similar question in the landlord forum, but I didn't get a response that really spoke to the legal/liability issues with electrical work.

I know I need a licensed electrician to do any work in the main panel to avoid a liability issue.  I also know I can have a handyman replace a lightbulb without causing liability issues or causing any concern for my insurance company.

What I am hoping to learn here is a bit more about where the liability cutoff might be between work that can be done by a handyman and work that requires a licensed electrician. 

Is it O.K. liability wise, to have a handyman:

1. Replace a bathroom light fixture.
2. Replace a ceiling fan.
3. Replace a switch.
4. Replace an outlet.
5. Replace a standard screw in lightbulb.
6. Repair a loose outlet box.  

Hmmm...  Yes, I have the skills to do pretty much all the work myself.  I have replaced breakers and would even do an entire electrical panel if I could pull the meter so the electrical panel was not hot.  

Nevertheless, I am currently sort of leaning toward having an electrician do anything past changing the lightbulb.  

Any more thoughts are appreciated.  It would certainly make my life easier if I felt comfortable, liability wise, to change light fixtures and install ceiling fans.  

I’m curious where the cut off is. I’m pretty confident I can change a lightbulb on a rental property without calling a licensed electrician. At the same time I’m also quite sure that I cannot rewire and electric panel in a rental property without having it done by a licensed electrician.

So where is the cut off? Do I need a licensed electrician to repair a light fixture. To replace a light fixture. To replace a switch or to replace an outlet.

Looking forward to your input

Its huge, and pretty much leaning over the house....

What if I hate the house??? 

(not really)

That is what I am hoping.  I am not sure if I owned a mill if I would really feel comfortable putting a residential tree through my saw.  It would seem likely that someone over the past 50 years might have placed an eye bolt or some other piece of metal in the trunk that would destroy my saw blade.   

I have a rather large tree that needs to come down.  It is about 90 feet tall and more than 3 feet wide at the base.  It is a Honey Locust.  

I am wondering if there is any possibility of selling the wood?  

Columbus seems to be a bit different.  I think it is required to get a permit if you are replacing anything more that 1/4 sheet of drywall.  This seems to be one I would expect many flippers to ignore.  

A permit is required for replacing an outlet or a ceiling light as well.  

There is still plenty of work I can do myself such as painting, flooring, and installing cabinets, but I think if I hook up a new sink, I would again need a permit.  

I am thinking about purchasing a property in need of serious rehab and am curious about the liability aspects of doing work myself on a property vs using licensed contractors vs pulling permits.  

My understanding tells me that doing the work myself leaves me open to the absolute highest level of liability, and that having a licensed contractor do the work and pull all permits for everything results in the lowest level of liability.

I am curious on peoples thoughts on the third option that people seem to consider which is using licensed contractors, but not pulling permits for everything.  

For example, what about using a licensed electrician to do all electrical work and bringing the entire electrical system up to code, but doing the plumbing and drywall myself and not pull permits.  

I think some people consider this really sketchy and illegal, at the same time, from what I can gather, it seems to be rather common practice. 

Bjorn, the area I am considering buying in is a poorer section of Columbus, Ohio, and from what I can tell, it looks like there is likely more unpermitted work being done in the area than permitted.  When I drive up and down the streets of the neighborhood, I see an unbelievable amount of rehab going on, and very few of the properties have the permit sign the city provides that is supposed to be visibly posted on the front of the house.  Also, when I go online and look at the auditor's website, more often than not, I pull up the permitting records, and there are none, despite the fact that there are new windows, roofs, porches, and siding.  Even when I check back on some of these homes a year later, there is still no permitting showing, so I don't think it is just a matter of the permits not being entered into the system yet.  

I am considering adding some properties to my rental portfolio.  From time to time, I run across a property for sale with significant recent unpermitted work.  I am curious about other's thoughts on this.  I do like the peace of mind that comes with the knowledge that the work has gone through the official permitting process, as this significantly improves the odds that is was done correctly and will not be a problem later.

I am wondering if it is a good idea or a bad idea to purchase a property with significant recent unpermitted work if I can get it for enough of a discount to have all the work inspected, fixed if necessary, and perhaps retroactively permitted.  I recognize that there are difficulties inspecting things that are behind drywall and the like.  With plumbing, I am of the thought that I can get a pretty good feel for the quality of the work by looking at what I can see, and then fix anything that shows up later.  

With electrical, I would suspect that the safest way to go would be to pull permits and do a whole house rewire, even if the wiring looks new.  I suspect it might be allowed for me to reuse most of the boxes, outlets, switches, and lights, but would likely have to replace all the wire that was pulled behind walls as well as the main panel.  

I am interested in feedback concerning legal aspects, insurance aspects, financial aspects, and anything else one might happen to have, and any idea for how to use the unpermitted work as a negotiating point on price.