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All Forum Posts by: Craig Moore

Craig Moore has started 40 posts and replied 187 times.

Post: What would you do with $20K to begin multi-family investing?

Craig MoorePosted
  • Commercial Property Manager/Facilities Manager
  • Boston, MA
  • Posts 187
  • Votes 41
Originally posted by @Stefen Lee:

u could at markets outside the northeast or west coast. The Midwest and parts of the south. Atlanta shot up in price so I started investing in the Midwest 

 You invested outside of where you live? How do you feel about that, though?

Post: What would you do with $20K to begin multi-family investing?

Craig MoorePosted
  • Commercial Property Manager/Facilities Manager
  • Boston, MA
  • Posts 187
  • Votes 41
Originally posted by @Jassem A.:

20k is enough for 3.5% down on a property worth almost 600k.

 This is correct, however, I'll need at least 3 months of reserves. 

Post: What would you do with $20K to begin multi-family investing?

Craig MoorePosted
  • Commercial Property Manager/Facilities Manager
  • Boston, MA
  • Posts 187
  • Votes 41
Originally posted by @Zak Parks:

Craig Moore I think you hit the nail on the head. I'd get an FHA loan on a 2,3, or 4 unit. Live in one of those units while renting the others. Then you still have plenty of money to play with. For example, you only need to put down 3500 on a 100k duplex. After closing costs you'll have about 15k left to do your marketing thing or buy something else smaller. FHA on a multifamily is the ultimate life hack.

 Zak,

I appreciate the response! However, I am not quite sure that I'll be able to get anything here in Boston, MA. $20k is chump change out here :/

Post: What would you do with $20K to begin multi-family investing?

Craig MoorePosted
  • Commercial Property Manager/Facilities Manager
  • Boston, MA
  • Posts 187
  • Votes 41

Hi BP,

I have a question for you all: If you had $20k what would be your first move with it? I've been saving up capital since I graduated college and can't help but think how much time I am wasting. I would like to get in the game now. I've been able to save around $20k (+/-) and have been wondering if I should use that as a downpayment on a duplex or triplex or use it as a marketing budget and begin wholesaling. I'm not sure which direction to go in, but I do have a goal of buying two multi-families next year. It's been enough saving, now time to tackle some risks. Any advice?

Post: Anyone out there achieve $10K/mo passive income after tax?

Craig MoorePosted
  • Commercial Property Manager/Facilities Manager
  • Boston, MA
  • Posts 187
  • Votes 41

Anymore thoughts?

Post: Anyone out there achieve $10K/mo passive income after tax?

Craig MoorePosted
  • Commercial Property Manager/Facilities Manager
  • Boston, MA
  • Posts 187
  • Votes 41
Originally posted by @Tom V.:
Originally posted by @Craig Moore:

 Here's my idea. The more doors you have = the easier it is to pay off the previously existing doors. Having more cash flow does increase your doors (hopefully), but it also increases your ability to pay off the doors you had before. If you only own 5 houses now, and leverage to buy 2-3 more over the course of however long, the additional income from those 2-3 houses will make it easier to pay off several of the first 5. And once the first 5 are paid off completely, then you can pay off the 2-3. At least that's what my plan is. 

I like your idea, basically a real estate equity snowball. Maybe instead of asking the forum who earns $10k, ask the forum who has successfully used this particular plan of investing. I would follow that thread for sure.

 The common theme that I am getting here is that paying down your mortgages (significantly and/or owning outright) is more of a detriment than one may have thought. I guess it depends on how you like your bread toasted..

Post: Anyone out there achieve $10K/mo passive income after tax?

Craig MoorePosted
  • Commercial Property Manager/Facilities Manager
  • Boston, MA
  • Posts 187
  • Votes 41

To address a few comments about passivity.. I may have worded it wrong initially.. it doesn't have to be completely passive. I don't mind directing a PM. Maybe I should have said "Exponential Income".

Also, can someone help me figure out what my net worth would need to be or number of doors I would need to have in MA (or northeast region) to net $10k-$20k per month? I think knowing this number would help me and I can work backwards from there.

Post: Anyone out there achieve $10K/mo passive income after tax?

Craig MoorePosted
  • Commercial Property Manager/Facilities Manager
  • Boston, MA
  • Posts 187
  • Votes 41
Originally posted by @Thomas S.:

Understand that growing requires leverage. The difference between the cost of leverage and the value of cash is different. Each eat into and reduce the cash flow you receive from a property. When a property is leveraged your cost is the prevailing interest rate which now is extremely low. When you have equity sitting dead in the property the cost is what ever the opportunity value is of that cash. If you can invest it for 10% return then that is how much of your cash flow is actually attributed to the equity you have sitting in a property.

If you purchase a $100,000 property with 10% down then $90,000 is costing you (@ say 4.5% interest) $337.50/ month and the $10,000 with a opportunity value of 10% is costing an additional $83.33/month for a total cost deducted from your cash flow of $420.83. You deduct that from your monthly rental income before any other expenses.

Now look at a $100000 property owned outright. $100,000 with a opportunity value of 10% is costing $833.33/ month off the top of your rental income. 

The cost of owning outright is almost twice the cost of leverage and is the reason why paying more cash for a property than the minimum down payment required is a costly proposition when this business is so dependant on numbers.

The greater the equity lying dead in a property the lower the cash flow generated by the property. Proponents of cash buying conveniently ignore the value of cash to artificially inflate their profits but the reality is that paying down a property does not increase cash flow it reduces cash flow if you are realistic about the value of money.

 Greg, very elaborate detail in this post. Thanks! Not entirely sure I understand it all though.

Post: Anyone out there achieve $10K/mo passive income after tax?

Craig MoorePosted
  • Commercial Property Manager/Facilities Manager
  • Boston, MA
  • Posts 187
  • Votes 41
Originally posted by @Mike Calandrillo:

@Craig Moore Hey man, in the same boat as you to a tee. 23 in NE area looking for 1st property to invest in, "house-hack". Actually, I have the same goal by 30th birthday as well lol

I got analysis paralysis early on because I kept worrying about downstream issues like this when in truth payoff strategies, number of doors, etc. doesn't make a difference if you don't take the plunge into the game.  My (unqualified) advice is to lock down the 1st deal and then be in a place to chart your course how you want.

Also, give the 10x Rule audiobook a listen to.. $10k/mo will seem like small change

Ping me anytime if you want to bounce ideas, talk about markets or real estate.

Best of luck!

 Hey Mike,

Awesome. I'm glad we share similar goals. I know we will get them if we stay diligent and focused! I'm familiar with the 10x Rule. I read the book. It's pure gold, and I need to read it again. I'll send you a colleague request!

Post: Anyone out there achieve $10K/mo passive income after tax?

Craig MoorePosted
  • Commercial Property Manager/Facilities Manager
  • Boston, MA
  • Posts 187
  • Votes 41
Originally posted by @Levi T.:
Originally posted by @Craig Moore:
Originally posted by @Levi T.:

I never understand why people think so Mom & Pop in this industry, more than any other sector. You can own thousands of units and be passive. It's called employees, managers, district managers, and executives. There is a guy (well 3 partners) that own over 1,500 SFH in my area. They went all in when the market crashed. Talk about balls. They had no money. They used hard money lenders to no limit, paid market, and just ran as fast as they could buying foreclosures none stop. Then one days they stopped, cleaned up their portfolio, moved the debt over to bank funding, and now sit on a nice little empire of 1,500 units. Around these parts, that's about 1.3 million in gross rents a month, most businesses pull 20-40%... that workouts out to about 4.6m net per year at 30%.

You have an age timeline. A Goal. Good. Set a goal for this year, try doubling your portfolio every year till you can't. If you business needs cash, figure out how to get it cash. If your business needs more deals, figure how to get it more deals. If your business has to much debt, figure how to pay it down and keep growing. Businesses are about resolving the business problem so it can keep growing as fast as you can understand how to resolve the problem.

There are heaps of people clearing way more than 10k a month, they just don't like advertising it.

 Awesome response, Levi. Those guys were surely brave and embody the kind of risks I like. Balls to the wall. I agree that there are heaps of people clearing more than $10k/mo. I would be interested in hearing how they did it but am not surprised by privacy. 

I also agree that you can own thousands of units and outsource MGMT. I don't see why MGMT would stop you from buying more. What are your thoughts on leveraging? 

 Leveraging is good, as long as the numbers really work. This business is all about getting good properties at low-low prices, and huge cashflows. If your into buy & hold rentals. Commercial loans are where it's at, so get to know some local bankers. Hard money lenders are always good to keep in your rolodex, as well as building a reputation for success so you can get investors if needed. It's a business, there is a standard of how everyone operates, you need to figure what type of debt services will help or hurt your business growth. Owning 15 units is nothing like owning 30, just like owning 60 is nothing like owning 100 units. Each step of the way you will meet new problems. If you are good at resolving those issues by or before they arrive, you will grow quickly.

 That's the plan. To utilize buy and hold rentals. Never thought to dig deeper into commercial loans. I'd even venture into development if that presented itself. I have a few banks I will start talking too.