Hi Duncan,
Yes you can negotiate during the due diligence stage and you can try to negotiate at any point in the sale process until close.
If you end up not being able to move forward during your due diligence, your earnest money deposit should actually be fully refunded to you, provided you put in the contract that your offer is contingent on your ability to do your due diligence.
There were several deals I worked on where additional repairs were found during our due diligence that necessitated negotiation.
What we did was thoroughly explain to the seller the impact of the additional expense and then offer them the options of moving forward at a lower purchase price, or working out terms at the same price (owner financing/sub2/something else), or cancelling the agreement.
Usually, the seller would choose to move forward at a lower purchase price but we definitely had parties choose to cancel or finance too.
If they chose to move forward at a lower purchase price, we'd write up a simple 1-sentence addendum to the original contract stating the new purchase price and have both parties sign.
You may want to include a deadline in writing of when the seller must respond by before you move forward with cancellation so you don't lose your EMD.
Hi Roosevelt,
I have pulled court records and recorder's records from many counties across the country, including counties in Texas. $30 as a cap is not a good rule of thumb.
What may be a good cap for one county holds no bearing on what caps should be for other counties.
I would say $155 for 50 records is pretty steep.
You may be better off pulling these records yourself or learning how to do it and then training a VA or someone you work with to do it for you.
What county are you trying to pull from?
I may be able to give you instruction if I've already pulled from that county in the past!
Hey Cody, I have been pulling List from Tarrent county and dallas county so far.
That is what Tarrant county looks like. I'm not sure if that is correct what I have been advised from courts office them selves.
If you can help that would be awesome!
Hi Roosevelt, these are actually records from the recorder's office and appear to be historical. The recorder's office is responsible for overseeing the recording of deeds, encumbrances, and liens on those deeds. This differs from Court records like probate, divorce, civil, and criminal cases.
After viewing your screenshot, it looks like you're focusing on Federal Tax Liens from the 1970's. I recommend finding more recently-filed liens to avoid running into a ton of outdated liens that are no longer relevant. Unless you have a specific project in mind for looking at historical Federal Tax Lien trends from the 1970's, these are not going to be very useful for you if you are trying to wholesale or invest.
It may be a good idea to call Tarrant County's Recorder's office and see if you can get recently-filed Tax Liens, Death Certificates, Divorce Judgments, etc and see what they can do. They may charge you a hefty fee to aggregate that list for you. If they do, then ask them if you can search their database in person for free. Many times you can do the work yourself to avoid paying these fees.
I think thats a good Idea. One question, when you usually pull list from courts house to get the information you need to skip trace and market etc. How much do you usually pay when pulling list?
For court records, and to clarify, I'm talking about probate, divorce, eviction, criminal, etc. here (not recorder's docs), I can usually access these for free or for a relatively low monthly rate directly from the courthouse...some states are better than others.
Texas happens to be a pretty good state for accessibility.
Pricing really does depend on the county.
Here's what I know about Tarrant county from pulling records in the past:
1. Probate and Eviction records are stored using Odyssey's court record filing system and they are free to look up yourself.
2. Divorce and Criminal records require a subscription including a $120 up front free, and then $35/mo on the District Clerk's record search.
Sometimes, the court docs will be viewable and they may have phone numbers and mailing addresses of the parties on the actual documents or in the court dockets. So sometimes I don't even need to skip trace them.
In the event that I do need to skip trace these records, ~$0.14/hit is pretty common in the industry for good-quality skip tracing..although I can usually get it for less.
----ABOUT RECORDER'S DOCS----
If you're looking EXCLUSIVELY for recorder's docs in Tarrant county, I have in my notes that Tarrant county is actually a pretty tough county to get recent records from. I'd recommend calling the recorder's office first to see what your options are. And then, depending on what they say, go into the recorder's office to look them up yourself or submit an open records request.
So these are the fees I was able to find on Tarrant county.
Now the only thing I would want to look for is a name and a address so I could skip trace. Now the problem is, The way I have been told by the courts office is if I want to look up information on a specific property, they can do it one by one. BUT I want a full list and they were not able to do that and they advised me to go to the Tarrant public search but I'm not sure if that's where I need to be because the prices just seems unreal. I am really looking for probates and tax liens and divorce etc. Those 3 are really what I am looking for and the money is not the issue. The issue is I just don't think the prices that are being provided to be are right based off what I'm seeing from you guys. Another example on here is I tried lookin up divorce and i came with this pricing amount.
One thing i did notice with the 86 records on the example below, It comes with 1960 pages and I believe that is where this take a turn. I only need a name and a property address and i would think that only requires one page. This is where confusion comes in for me. Any thoughts @Cody Lee @Eric James
The recording fee schedule you posted is the fee required to FILE documents....this is not the fee to search EXISTING documents. It's important to be very clear and concise with what you are trying to do. The clerk is only human and may give you wrong information if they misunderstand your question.
It sounds like your goal is simply to search records or obtain a list of party names/mailing addresses of certain court record types. So when you call and ask, this may be how you want to word it.
In Tarrant County, probate and divorce cases are NOT handled by the recorder's office.
Probate court records are handled by Tarrant County's Probate court.
Divorce court records are handled by Tarrant County's District court.
If money is not an issue and you do not want to pull these records yourself, then you can contact the Probate court for probate records and the District court for divorce records and see what options they have for you to get a list of all of the case records from your desired date range (i.e. all court records from May 1st, 2021 to May 31st, 2021).
The clerk should be able to instruct you on how to view these records.
For Tax Liens, you can call Tarrant County's Recorder's office and ask them how much it would be to get a list of all Tax Liens from your desired date range.
Thank you. This helps a bunch! :)
It's my pleasure, Roosevelt! I'm happy to help. Feel free to message me if you have any other court record questions!
Hi Roosevelt,
I have pulled court records and recorder's records from many counties across the country, including counties in Texas. $30 as a cap is not a good rule of thumb.
What may be a good cap for one county holds no bearing on what caps should be for other counties.
I would say $155 for 50 records is pretty steep.
You may be better off pulling these records yourself or learning how to do it and then training a VA or someone you work with to do it for you.
What county are you trying to pull from?
I may be able to give you instruction if I've already pulled from that county in the past!
Hey Cody, I have been pulling List from Tarrent county and dallas county so far.
That is what Tarrant county looks like. I'm not sure if that is correct what I have been advised from courts office them selves.
If you can help that would be awesome!
Hi Roosevelt, these are actually records from the recorder's office and appear to be historical. The recorder's office is responsible for overseeing the recording of deeds, encumbrances, and liens on those deeds. This differs from Court records like probate, divorce, civil, and criminal cases.
After viewing your screenshot, it looks like you're focusing on Federal Tax Liens from the 1970's. I recommend finding more recently-filed liens to avoid running into a ton of outdated liens that are no longer relevant. Unless you have a specific project in mind for looking at historical Federal Tax Lien trends from the 1970's, these are not going to be very useful for you if you are trying to wholesale or invest.
It may be a good idea to call Tarrant County's Recorder's office and see if you can get recently-filed Tax Liens, Death Certificates, Divorce Judgments, etc and see what they can do. They may charge you a hefty fee to aggregate that list for you. If they do, then ask them if you can search their database in person for free. Many times you can do the work yourself to avoid paying these fees.
I think thats a good Idea. One question, when you usually pull list from courts house to get the information you need to skip trace and market etc. How much do you usually pay when pulling list?
For court records, and to clarify, I'm talking about probate, divorce, eviction, criminal, etc. here (not recorder's docs), I can usually access these for free or for a relatively low monthly rate directly from the courthouse...some states are better than others.
Texas happens to be a pretty good state for accessibility.
Pricing really does depend on the county.
Here's what I know about Tarrant county from pulling records in the past:
1. Probate and Eviction records are stored using Odyssey's court record filing system and they are free to look up yourself.
2. Divorce and Criminal records require a subscription including a $120 up front free, and then $35/mo on the District Clerk's record search.
Sometimes, the court docs will be viewable and they may have phone numbers and mailing addresses of the parties on the actual documents or in the court dockets. So sometimes I don't even need to skip trace them.
In the event that I do need to skip trace these records, ~$0.14/hit is pretty common in the industry for good-quality skip tracing..although I can usually get it for less.
----ABOUT RECORDER'S DOCS----
If you're looking EXCLUSIVELY for recorder's docs in Tarrant county, I have in my notes that Tarrant county is actually a pretty tough county to get recent records from. I'd recommend calling the recorder's office first to see what your options are. And then, depending on what they say, go into the recorder's office to look them up yourself or submit an open records request.
So these are the fees I was able to find on Tarrant county.
Now the only thing I would want to look for is a name and a address so I could skip trace. Now the problem is, The way I have been told by the courts office is if I want to look up information on a specific property, they can do it one by one. BUT I want a full list and they were not able to do that and they advised me to go to the Tarrant public search but I'm not sure if that's where I need to be because the prices just seems unreal. I am really looking for probates and tax liens and divorce etc. Those 3 are really what I am looking for and the money is not the issue. The issue is I just don't think the prices that are being provided to be are right based off what I'm seeing from you guys. Another example on here is I tried lookin up divorce and i came with this pricing amount.
One thing i did notice with the 86 records on the example below, It comes with 1960 pages and I believe that is where this take a turn. I only need a name and a property address and i would think that only requires one page. This is where confusion comes in for me. Any thoughts @Cody Lee @Eric James
The recording fee schedule you posted is the fee required to FILE documents....this is not the fee to search EXISTING documents. It's important to be very clear and concise with what you are trying to do. The clerk is only human and may give you wrong information if they misunderstand your question.
It sounds like your goal is simply to search records or obtain a list of party names/mailing addresses of certain court record types. So when you call and ask, this may be how you want to word it.
In Tarrant County, probate and divorce cases are NOT handled by the recorder's office.
Probate court records are handled by Tarrant County's Probate court.
Divorce court records are handled by Tarrant County's District court.
If money is not an issue and you do not want to pull these records yourself, then you can contact the Probate court for probate records and the District court for divorce records and see what options they have for you to get a list of all of the case records from your desired date range (i.e. all court records from May 1st, 2021 to May 31st, 2021).
The clerk should be able to instruct you on how to view these records.
For Tax Liens, you can call Tarrant County's Recorder's office and ask them how much it would be to get a list of all Tax Liens from your desired date range.
Hi Roosevelt,
I have pulled court records and recorder's records from many counties across the country, including counties in Texas. $30 as a cap is not a good rule of thumb.
What may be a good cap for one county holds no bearing on what caps should be for other counties.
I would say $155 for 50 records is pretty steep.
You may be better off pulling these records yourself or learning how to do it and then training a VA or someone you work with to do it for you.
What county are you trying to pull from?
I may be able to give you instruction if I've already pulled from that county in the past!
Hey Cody, I have been pulling List from Tarrent county and dallas county so far.
That is what Tarrant county looks like. I'm not sure if that is correct what I have been advised from courts office them selves.
If you can help that would be awesome!
Hi Roosevelt, these are actually records from the recorder's office and appear to be historical. The recorder's office is responsible for overseeing the recording of deeds, encumbrances, and liens on those deeds. This differs from Court records like probate, divorce, civil, and criminal cases.
After viewing your screenshot, it looks like you're focusing on Federal Tax Liens from the 1970's. I recommend finding more recently-filed liens to avoid running into a ton of outdated liens that are no longer relevant. Unless you have a specific project in mind for looking at historical Federal Tax Lien trends from the 1970's, these are not going to be very useful for you if you are trying to wholesale or invest.
It may be a good idea to call Tarrant County's Recorder's office and see if you can get recently-filed Tax Liens, Death Certificates, Divorce Judgments, etc and see what they can do. They may charge you a hefty fee to aggregate that list for you. If they do, then ask them if you can search their database in person for free. Many times you can do the work yourself to avoid paying these fees.
I think thats a good Idea. One question, when you usually pull list from courts house to get the information you need to skip trace and market etc. How much do you usually pay when pulling list?
For court records, and to clarify, I'm talking about probate, divorce, eviction, criminal, etc. here (not recorder's docs), I can usually access these for free or for a relatively low monthly rate directly from the courthouse...some states are better than others.
Texas happens to be a pretty good state for accessibility.
Pricing really does depend on the county.
Here's what I know about Tarrant county from pulling records in the past:
1. Probate and Eviction records are stored using Odyssey's court record filing system and they are free to look up yourself.
2. Divorce and Criminal records require a subscription including a $120 up front free, and then $35/mo on the District Clerk's record search.
Sometimes, the court docs will be viewable and they may have phone numbers and mailing addresses of the parties on the actual documents or in the court dockets. So sometimes I don't even need to skip trace them.
In the event that I do need to skip trace these records, ~$0.14/hit is pretty common in the industry for good-quality skip tracing..although I can usually get it for less.
----ABOUT RECORDER'S DOCS----
If you're looking EXCLUSIVELY for recorder's docs in Tarrant county, I have in my notes that Tarrant county is actually a pretty tough county to get recent records from. I'd recommend calling the recorder's office first to see what your options are. And then, depending on what they say, go into the recorder's office to look them up yourself or submit an open records request.
@Eric James Pricing varies a lot per county. You can sign up for a free account for a lot of counties in Florida and get literally all of their records for free.
The entire state of Oregon can be searched on a uniform court system search for $40/mo no cap and you get access to thousands of records.
Maricopa county, Arizona (Phoenix), you can pay them $30/week and they will give you all probate, divorce, and civil records...which comes out usually to hundreds or even thousands of records per week or less than a penny per case.
Denver county, Colorado charges about $5/record for probate leads only but other records are $7/search and you must know the party name.
There isn't a one-size-fits-all price tag for every county unfortunately. What may be true for your county is not necessarily true for others.
In most cases above, $150 would be a terrible deal..the only one where it might be good is Denver...however, Colorado has aggressive laws on selling court data. You're not even allowed to keep a database of court records in the state.
Now it seems like the OP is talking about recorder's docs which differs from the Probate and Civil courts. The recorder's docs handles deeds, encumbrances, liens, etc...and these are very frequently free online for many areas and in the areas where you can't access them online, you can often go into the recorder's office and look them up on their kiosk for free.
He's talking about TX.
Correct. In Texas, Brazoria, El Paso, Fort Bend, McLennan, Montgomery, and Williamson counties all have recently-filed Recorder's docs that you can search online for free without paying a fee whatsoever. I bet there are other counties too in Texas that have methods where you can get these records for less than $1/pg.
Hi Roosevelt,
I have pulled court records and recorder's records from many counties across the country, including counties in Texas. $30 as a cap is not a good rule of thumb.
What may be a good cap for one county holds no bearing on what caps should be for other counties.
I would say $155 for 50 records is pretty steep.
You may be better off pulling these records yourself or learning how to do it and then training a VA or someone you work with to do it for you.
What county are you trying to pull from?
I may be able to give you instruction if I've already pulled from that county in the past!
Hey Cody, I have been pulling List from Tarrent county and dallas county so far.
That is what Tarrant county looks like. I'm not sure if that is correct what I have been advised from courts office them selves.
If you can help that would be awesome!
Hi Roosevelt, these are actually records from the recorder's office and appear to be historical. The recorder's office is responsible for overseeing the recording of deeds, encumbrances, and liens on those deeds. This differs from Court records like probate, divorce, civil, and criminal cases.
After viewing your screenshot, it looks like you're focusing on Federal Tax Liens from the 1970's. I recommend finding more recently-filed liens to avoid running into a ton of outdated liens that are no longer relevant. Unless you have a specific project in mind for looking at historical Federal Tax Lien trends from the 1970's, these are not going to be very useful for you if you are trying to wholesale or invest.
It may be a good idea to call Tarrant County's Recorder's office and see if you can get recently-filed Tax Liens, Death Certificates, Divorce Judgments, etc and see what they can do. They may charge you a hefty fee to aggregate that list for you. If they do, then ask them if you can search their database in person for free. Many times you can do the work yourself to avoid paying these fees.
@Eric James Pricing varies a lot per county. You can sign up for a free account for a lot of counties in Florida and get literally all of their records for free.
The entire state of Oregon can be searched on a uniform court system search for $40/mo no cap and you get access to thousands of records.
Maricopa county, Arizona (Phoenix), you can pay them $30/week and they will give you all probate, divorce, and civil records...which comes out usually to hundreds or even thousands of records per week or less than a penny per case.
Denver county, Colorado charges about $5/record for probate leads only but other records are $7/search and you must know the party name.
There isn't a one-size-fits-all price tag for every county unfortunately. What may be true for your county is not necessarily true for others.
In most cases above, $150 would be a terrible deal..the only one where it might be good is Denver...however, Colorado has aggressive laws on selling court data. You're not even allowed to keep a database of court records in the state.
Now it seems like the OP is talking about recorder's docs which differs from the Probate and Civil courts. The recorder's docs handles deeds, encumbrances, liens, etc...and these are very frequently free online for many areas and in the areas where you can't access them online, you can often go into the recorder's office and look them up on their kiosk for free.
Hi Roosevelt,
I have pulled court records and recorder's records from many counties across the country, including counties in Texas. $30 as a cap is not a good rule of thumb.
What may be a good cap for one county holds no bearing on what caps should be for other counties.
I would say $155 for 50 records is pretty steep.
You may be better off pulling these records yourself or learning how to do it and then training a VA or someone you work with to do it for you.
What county are you trying to pull from?
I may be able to give you instruction if I've already pulled from that county in the past!
@Dennis Yosco Does the management company or LLC have a non-PO Box mailing address?
If so you could try to doorknock them.
If it's a PO Box, there may be mail forwarding. You could try sending her a small gift, a large invitation envelope with a Starbucks gift card inside, a handwritten letter offering to take her to the best place in town for dinner to discuss the property. On the envelope you could include personal touches like a coffee stain, stamp, a cologne spray, an ink smudge...anything to encourage her to open it.
If you have no valid mailing address, you could search her name on your county's tax assessor's office to see if any other properties come up...also check ADJACENT COUNTIES' tax assessor's records.
Look up her name at the Recorder's office to see if you can find any more information or deeds filed with her on it.
You could also try scanning through the articles of organization for her LLC on the SOS website.
You could try truepeoplesearch or thatsthem or other online resources to see if any family members come up and repeat all these processes with them.
You could also chat up your other neighbors and see if any of them know how to reach her.
If you can identify a previous MLS sale, you could contact the agent and involve them in the transaction to get paid if they're able to connect you two and you end up buying the place.
If you're hellbent, there's a lot of stuff you can try!
There are lots of different lists you can call and no perfect answer to "the first one" you should call.
A big factor is area. For example, probate leads are not ideal in California or Washington due to how the court mandates a probated property is to be sold.
However, Oregon is a phenomenal place to market to probates.
I can't speak on PropStream as I haven't used their platform in a long time.
However, vacant lists, tax delinquencies, code violations, probates, divorces, and evictions are all pretty great lists. If you're wanting to start with a broader list, I'd suggest putting together a list of High Equity Absentee Seniors.
I'd also recommend filtering your list, if you can, to include only properties owned by individuals.
If you need any help getting court records in your county, you can call the local courthouse to see how records are stored and what the process is to get these records.
Sometimes you'll need to go in with a laptop and record them manually..other times they'll have an easy search function on an online portal.
Driving for dollars to build a list is also a fantastic way of finding motivation. Plus, you can often talk to the neighbors to get the scoop on the property.
Of course, with any of these lists, you may need to skip trace to get current contact info. There are free resources online that are extremely hit or miss.