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All Forum Posts by: Chris Salvato

Chris Salvato has started 1 posts and replied 8 times.

Post: Finding Our Market: A Census Data Dive

Chris SalvatoPosted
  • Brooklyn, NY
  • Posts 10
  • Votes 16

Thanks Rick. Your advice may be a little misplaced.

We have been out there and "doing it". 

1. We investigated areas methodically

2. My wife has gotten her Real Estate Agent's license and has been practicing in Brooklyn.

3. We built relationships with our team in our locale of choice.

4. We have been evaluating hundreds of homes over the course of the past year.

5. We put offers in on properties, sometimes way out of our comfort zone, and nothing has worked out just yet.

Our main strategy has been to explore the MLS. In this market, I don't think that's really a great strategy.

So we are going to have to change up and look into buying from wholesalers (since we aren't in a position to wholesale remotely, even though I have 5 years marketing/advertising experience).

If you are giving this advice to others, I feel it's dangerous. Seems like a blanket recommendation to "go out there and do it!" and "TAKE ACTION!" without considering what we've done. Just because we haven't purchased a home yet does not mean action was not taken.

Post: Finding Our Market: A Census Data Dive

Chris SalvatoPosted
  • Brooklyn, NY
  • Posts 10
  • Votes 16

@Alan Fischer Thanks for asking for an update – almost forgot we posted this here.

8 months ago, shortly after this post, my wife and I decided to pursue property options in the Denver, Colorado area.  

Our strategy was to buy our first property with an FHA loan, then another property a year later with our remaining capital.

We forged a relationship with a great real estate agent in Denver named Dale McConnell with a company called StepsRE.  We told him we wouldn't be looking to buy for about 8-9 months, and he was great about it.  Really put in the time to work with us.

We spent those months getting regular updates about new listings, and learning how we would work together when the time came.  We thought that time would come when we found a property where the numbers worked, and once we understood the general feel of the market.

Fast forward to today...

The analysis via census data was great with one exception - home prices change *rapidly* especially in a hot market. Using median home values from even a few years ago to gauge affordability was useless in this exercise.  

Most home values in the Denver metro area skyrocketing, and those properties where the numbers are even remotely close to working are in really rough condition. A small subset of these are probably flipping opportunities, but that's really hard to gauge long distance.

So, after 8 months, we have put offers in on a few homes where the numbers have worked - but we were out-offered every time.

I still think Denver is a great place to purchase - because of my analysis and some qualitative reasoning - but my general feel is that the market is too hot for the MLS.

We are going to be contacting wholesalers soon to see if that's a better path for us. If not, we might have to wait for the inevitable crash before we buy in Denver; or change up to another city from our list here.

Post: Finding Our Market: A Census Data Dive

Chris SalvatoPosted
  • Brooklyn, NY
  • Posts 10
  • Votes 16

Hi @Albert Zheng!

I hit a point in looking at the data where I just wanted to start looking at properties, so didn't mathematically weight the different criteria.  We did have some things that were more important (e.g. we felt low vacancy was important to us), but used our intuition to gauge when we had a good mix.

Since this post, I have also put in additional disqualifiers for individual properties. That includes things like bad schools (according to greatschools.org).

As you mention, our selection was also swayed by emotional factors - namely, "would we be happy living here?"

Post: Finding Our Market: A Census Data Dive

Chris SalvatoPosted
  • Brooklyn, NY
  • Posts 10
  • Votes 16

@Matt Marino Terrific!  Thank you for the offer on your GIS skills :D

Post: Finding Our Market: A Census Data Dive

Chris SalvatoPosted
  • Brooklyn, NY
  • Posts 10
  • Votes 16

@Leland Barrow Thanks for all that awesome information!

@Rick Pozos I understand your sentiment, but I disagree.  I can see how you might be wary that I am getting paralysis by analysis or thinking too much – but looking at data and understanding opportunities/the big picture is where I have a track record of success.

In my past, the times when I have been most successful is when I evaluated a market, understood it completely, then took massive action to dominate it. It's this process that has led to the passive income I currently generate, and a business I launched that was acquired.

Similarly, when I have just jumped in willy nilly and started doing things randomly (like randomly buying property or sending out marketing pieces), I was met with years of failure and pain.

So, in short, I appreciate your sentiment but, trust me, this is part of my action taking process. If I am going to stick a stake in the ground, it's going to be fertile.  I'm under no delusions that I will find the "perfect" market.

Post: Finding Our Market: A Census Data Dive

Chris SalvatoPosted
  • Brooklyn, NY
  • Posts 10
  • Votes 16

@Spenser Murphy I am using R to analyze the data, and they have a few packages for taking names of counties and plotting them on maps.  Not a huge expert on generating the maps - it was the hardest thing for me to do in the entire analysis.  

Would love a deeper dive on it with you though, since the Census ZCTAs are not the same as ZIPs, which presents a challenge when looking at things on a more granular level.

Interesting take in the data on commuting.  Didn't even realize it was available.

I just saw that there are a whole host of business related data sets that I can pull (e.g. number of businesses in an area, business growth, total payroll, etc.) so will have a look at that and pull it in to add to the criteria along with commuting data.  Really awesome idea!

And yes, happy to connect with you about this in more detail on a call. 

Post: Finding Our Market: A Census Data Dive

Chris SalvatoPosted
  • Brooklyn, NY
  • Posts 10
  • Votes 16

I am hoping this post will help some others on here who are trying to make decisions on where to invest.

My wife and I are looking for the market we want to tackle, and this post will describe our process.  Part of our process included using my skills as a developer/data analyst to pull US census data for every county in the USA.  Here is a link to that data (sourced right from the US Census Bureau) for your own perusal:

https://cl.ly/3w0i0s3V2o3m

This data is free to the public but VERY hard to access. The government doesn't really know how to make anything easy.  For interested parties, the rest of this post is the story of how we are using this data, and continue to use this data as we try to find our market.

Back Story

A few months ago my wife and I decided to get into real estate investing and started doing a ton of research.  We determined that our end-goal is to have a portfolio of rental properties that generate $10k/month in cash flow within 5 years, with our stretch goal being $20k/month within 5 years.

To kick off our entry into real estate, we decided our first purchase would be a "house hack" where we live in one unit, and rent out the other(s) in a duplex, triplex or quad using an FHA loan on our first deal.

Right now, we are fairly mobile and can move just about anywhere.  We are looking at this as an advantage, because we can pick any city in the country to move to. But it's also been an Achilleas Heal because it's easy to paralyzed by options.

To narrow down our options, we want to move to a place with a better-than-average chance of success, that is also a place we really want to live (i.e. more on the urban side, less rural.  We don't like a rural life).

So rather than throwing darts at a map, we decided to look at data in the entire US, and set a criteria.  Any areas that met that criteria would be worth visiting, assembling a team, and moving.

To do that, I needed to look at US Census data.

Our Criteria - What are we looking for?

Since a big part of my career has been analyzing data, I know it's a lot easier to analyze data when you go in with a particular set of questions or criteria you're looking for. 

Here are the things we wanted to look for, which drove what data we needed to pull, and what we calculated:  (Maybe we are looking at the wrong things?  Input is welcomed...)

  • 5 Growth
  • Low value of property (so it's easier for us to enter the market)
  • High cost of renting
  • High percentage of units being rented vs. owned
  • High percentage of renters renting property with 3x income
  • Low vacancy rates
  • Low unemployment rates 

Of these metrics, we couldn't get a few from the census...at least not yet.  Those we could get are bolded above.  Those we couldn't (or haven't found a way to get it yet) are not bolded.

Our Criteria - What are the numbers?

We went in not knowing what a good number was for a lot of the metrics we were looking at.  So we looked at the data set overall and figured what a good value was based on national averages and regions that we knew we liked.  That led us to the following numbers:

  • 5 Year Growth > 0 (the bigger the better)
  • Gross Growth > 10,000
  • Total Population > 100,000
  • Median Home Value < $350,000 (which means a good deal would be ~$245,000)
  • Must be in a state we want to live in (e.g. TX, NY, PA, VA, MD, CO, CA, NC, NJ, HI, FL, GA)
  • Rental Vacancy Rate < the national average + 1%
  • Unemployment < the national average + 1%
  • Low unemployment rates 

Navigating US Census Data

Naively, I thought US Census data would be easy to access.  That's kind of stupid, because nothing provided or done by the government is easy.

For anyone wanting to look at US Census data on your own, go to http://factfinder.census.gov/faces/nav/jsf/pages/guided_search.xhtml and poke around for a bit.  

(I am not really in the mood to type up a 10 page article on how to use the census. It took me about 3 days to figure it out.  If people are interested, I may write up a guide or create a video for you all.)

The long and short of it is that you pick the metrics you are interested in (say, total population) and the geographies you are interested in (say, counties, states or places/cities/towns/villages).  Then you can generate a report that has those metrics for that area.

Unfortunately, the US Census only has a few reports that pull various kinds of information together (e.g. Population and median home value).  If you're an uber-nerd like me, you need to pull the different data sets out for different metrics, and cross reference the data based on geographies...but that's a topic for another time, (and likely just for data nerds like me).

In the end, we were able to pull various data sets that shed light on various areas.  The attached file above is for counties, but we pulled county and ZIP code data, so we can get a higher level and more granular view at different areas.

From those data sets, we were able to pull/calculate:

  • population in 2015
  • population density
  • gross growth
  • growth 5 years
  • percent white population
  • median home value dollars
  • median owner costs with mortgage
  • median owner costs without mortgage
  • median gross rent 2014
  • percent units rented
  • rental vacancy rate
  • home value to income ratio
  • mean income dollars
  • unemployment rate 16 and over
  • percent renting for at most one third income

Narrowing Down

When we ran all the US counties through the criteria only 66 of 3140 counties met our criteria.  Talk about narrowing down!

But 66 is still too many to look into at once.  We really need 1 area that we can focus on and blast through.  So our next idea was to take all of the counties that match these criteria and plot them on a map.

Once they are on a map we will be able to instantly see a few things:

  1. Are these places we actually want to live?  (e.g. are they near cities or really freaking remote?)
  2. Are multiple counties really a single area? (e.g. are we looking at 10 counties all around the Dallas area?  If so, we can just look at Dallas as a whole, and start our search in the counties/ZIPs that look most promising)

These are the maps we created:

Florida

Missouri

Georgia

Maryland

North Carolina

Virginia

Pennsylvania

New York

Colorado

Texas

After looking at these maps, and reflecting on where we would want to live, we narrowed it down to the following 5 (in order of personal preference):

  • Denver Colorado
  • The San Antonio -> Austin TX Corridor
  • The Washington, DC to Richmond VA Corridor
  • Southern Maryland
  • Raleigh-Durham, NC

Next Steps

We are still discussing what our next logical step is...but we are fairly certain the next immediate step is doing a more qualitative analysis of the areas: reading business journals, reading local newspapers, investigating school and community development initiatives, investigating school quality, etc.

With that qualitative analysis, we will likely eliminate another 1-3 cities, then plan to build our team and network with local investors 

After that, we will build our team in those cities and plan a visit to build relationships and vet properties.

I hope that revealing part of our process helps at least one person, even if it's just learning something about your market from the HUGE CSV FILE I posted.

Do you agree with this process? Disagree?  Too much thinking?  Looking at the wrong stuff? Looking at the right stuff? :)

Post: New York City wholesaling

Chris SalvatoPosted
  • Brooklyn, NY
  • Posts 10
  • Votes 16

sorry complete noob here... what is deed leveraging?