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All Forum Posts by: Cheryl Abram

Cheryl Abram has started 3 posts and replied 16 times.

Post: Syndicator Threatens LPs for Negative Comment about them On BP

Cheryl AbramPosted
  • Investor
  • Springville, UT
  • Posts 17
  • Votes 7
Quote from @Don Konipol:
Quote from @Cheryl Abram:
Quote from @Duke Giordano:

The nature of the limited partner and syndicator relationship is at best "holding information back" and at worst "deceptive or untruthful".  This dynamic needs to change and hopefully difficult times like we are currently in will force limited partners to demands more transparency.  Some of us in the industry are fighting to help with that for the limited partner, and hopefully that comes to fruition in the near future.  

Agree, that is my why! My greatest pain point is not that the deals failed, although that certainly adds salt to the wounds, it's the poor communication, false narratives, chasing (almost begging) for updates, lack of full disclosure, the smoke and mirrors, etc. These are areas GPs can control and I guess choosing not to. 

Also interesting in my situation when the deals began to fail the gps started distancing themselves from each other, which leads me to think the gps really had no or limited experience managing deals together. Lots of pointing fingers when things fall apart.

Question: during this 3 year run two of the gps have spun up and are now operating under new investment entities. Thoughts on why this might be? Is this a common trend? 

On the flip side of all of this, I'm in a few deals where the GPs have been very good, complete opposite experience. Having a safe forum for LPs the share their experiences is needed.

Cheryl 




In EVERY business there are two kinds of market participants; the people/companies in it for the long haul, through both good and not so good economic times, consisting of EXPERIENCED, PROFESSIONALS whose careers are dedicated to and dependent on fulfilling the needs of their clients/customers.
The other type of participant are in the particular business because it’s OPPORTUNISTIC for them to be in it AT THE TIME.  This year they’re real estate syndicators; three years hence they’re running and selling oil drilling participations, after that they’re involved in fin tech.  

A friend of mine used to do that. At various times during the past 25 years he “specialized” in oil and gas drilling, franchise sales, surgical center investments, office centers, start up incubators, vitamins, mobile washing equipment, cemetery syndications, residential mortgage brokerage, commercial mortgage brokerage, insurance as an investment, long term care insurance, and property development in Mexico.  

Investors need to do a thorough background check on the key INDIVIDUALS that they would be relying on to invest and manage their money.  Every “resume” is going to be biased to make the individual look better than they are, but a hard reading and further research should uncover some hard facts.

To include some humor, here are some “facts” I’ve seen provided on syndicators websites, and what I think the reality is

1. “Attended” university of Pennsylvania …………… signed up for a free introductory day and never came back
2. Management team has over 20 years experience……..no one has been in any business for more than 2 years
3. Uses big data to identify properties ……….has a subscription to Loopnet
4. No one has ever lost a dollar…………we use new investor money to make up loses of old investors
5. We are with you every step of the way……..until your check clears

please do a thorough vetting of any investment you make, at least if it is a size where a loss will cause you concern.  

 Sigh - the first failed deal was stamped with #4  :-/

Post: Syndicator Threatens LPs for Negative Comment about them On BP

Cheryl AbramPosted
  • Investor
  • Springville, UT
  • Posts 17
  • Votes 7
Quote from @Duke Giordano:

The nature of the limited partner and syndicator relationship is at best "holding information back" and at worst "deceptive or untruthful".  This dynamic needs to change and hopefully difficult times like we are currently in will force limited partners to demands more transparency.  Some of us in the industry are fighting to help with that for the limited partner, and hopefully that comes to fruition in the near future.  

Agree, that is my why! My greatest pain point is not that the deals failed, although that certainly adds salt to the wounds, it's the poor communication, false narratives, chasing (almost begging) for updates, lack of full disclosure, the smoke and mirrors, etc. These are areas GPs can control and I guess choosing not to. 

Also interesting in my situation when the deals began to fail the gps started distancing themselves from each other, which leads me to think the gps really had no or limited experience managing deals together. Lots of pointing fingers when things fall apart.

Question: during this 3 year run two of the gps have spun up and are now operating under new investment entities. Thoughts on why this might be? Is this a common trend? 

On the flip side of all of this, I'm in a few deals where the GPs have been very good, complete opposite experience. Having a safe forum for LPs the share their experiences is needed.

Cheryl 




Post: Syndicator Threatens LPs for Negative Comment about them On BP

Cheryl AbramPosted
  • Investor
  • Springville, UT
  • Posts 17
  • Votes 7
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
Quote from @Scott Trench:
Quote from @Cheryl Abram:
Quote from @Scott Trench:

I don't know who needs to read this, but I feel it needs to be posted, publicly.

 Recently the following happened:

- BP Member posts negative statement about syndicator to these forums, involving lost money, poor communication, etc.

- Syndicator is radio silent, apparently pretending not to notice dozens or hundreds of discussions about their business. Syndicator does not respond to thread.

- Syndicator intimidates investor (who just lost tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars investing with said syndicator) with legal threat

- Terrified LP, already having lost money, now is scared that wealthy syndicator could ruin them, and asks me to remove the forum post discussing the company

While I am in no position to verify the truth or falsity of claims made on these forums by LPs or GPs, to me, it seems like a special hell is emerging for investors where the following reality is possible:

- Invest tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars with a syndicator

- Lose all or most of this investment

- Get ghosted/poor communication from sponsor

- When they complain or ask for help, get threatened with legal action

I told the person with the original post the following: 

- Name the syndicator, and I will publicly call them out for their threat, if they confirm who it is. I will invite the syndicator to confirm or deny the threat publicly. The member who messaged me has not confirmed who it was and named two people in their post. Otherwise, I'd be naming them right now.

- If the syndicator actually sues this member, we will make the litigation a headline issue in every major BiggerPockets content channel, including YouTube, Blog, Podcast, and these forums. We will cover the story in detail, with regular updates, through to resolution. 

After all, Investors need to know which sponsors sue their own investors after allegedly losing their money and ghosting them.

- If the OP is lying, we will expose that and call out the syndicator's innocence, of course.

- If the OP is generally telling the truth, we will expose the syndicator's performance and behavior in threatening and suing their own investor as far and wide as we possibly can. We will evaluate their portfolio, estimating the purchase price and current value of every deal they've done from the beginning of time. We will research occupancy rates, and report on outcomes.

I am disgusted by the accusation, if true, made by this recent member, and while this is the most egregious situation to date, it's part of a disturbing pattern. The power dynamic between GP and LP is out of control. I have received multiple DMs from terrified members intimidated by wealthy sponsors, asking them to pull down their forum posts, even though they claim they posted truthful information.

We will rectify that power dynamic. 

Maybe some GPs can intimidate their own LPs in private. But, not here on BiggerPockets. If you do that, we will come after you.

Syndicators - by all means, defend your reputation and set the record straight. If someone says something untrue about your business, respond and tell us what's really going on. 

But, be warned, GPs - if you threaten your LPs for posting generally accurate negative stuff about you on BiggerPockets, we will make a public example of you for all to see.

Hi Scott, thanks for starting this thread. This happened to me recently. I invested two deals with Djuric Family Office (DFO) also know as Blake Capital Group. When the first deal failed I turned to BP to get answers to questions I had that were not being answered by DFO and share my experience with other LPs.

Within a few days I received an email DFO stating:

"I will be sending you a legal letter in the mail and email tomorrow regarding your false and misleading internet comments."

To date no letter has been received.

The second deal just failed with complete loss of all investments. I'll be updating my experience on BP, so who knows what will happen next.



 Cheryl - I am facing a VERY interesting situation (not with Djuric family office / Blake Capital Group but with another sponsor). 

Basically, it is clear that this sponsor lost all of their investor's money, and multiple investors claim that the sponsor lost their money, ghosted them, and behaved inappropriately. 

But, none of them are willing to discuss the matter on the record. We put a journalist on a particular story, and no source is willing to discuss the situation publicly. 

To me, THAT is the story. LPs who feel mistreated/robbed/lied to are too scared to say anything

You are an extremely rare breed in being willing to discuss a sponsor in a negatively light publicly. 

How do we change this dynamic? We want people to discuss sponsors like they'd discuss plumbers - the good, the bad, and the ugly, with 5 star ratings. 

The only place we can get some semblance of this is on PassivePockets.com, where some sponsors are reviewed by LPs behind an LP-only wall. 

Why do you think folks are so afraid to speak up?


 I agree. I think one thing people who do not want to go public is they can shift the story but focus on truth not opinions.  When you go blasting people for ponzi etc without proof I would never do that, but if you lost money in a deal a way to shape it was?

Wow - did you see XYZ syndicator who owned 123 Main St was foreclosed on the deal and the property was taken back by the lender? This must be very unfortunate for the investors because they had only sourced 70% debt so 30% of the equity from investors went poof..

Re: threat of legal letter, personally I would post that online and say "wow, see the response I finally get"... (Not legal advice or noting you should do this, just what I would do" and then ask "happy to let this play out in court and go to discovery - love to see how you financially handled this... and oh by the way, please refrain from destroying any documents, emails etc. as it relates to this deal for discovery purposes..."

The US has consumer protection rights that should apply to this space. 

The Federal Trade Consumer’s Bureau of Consumer Protection stops unfair, deceptive and fraudulent business practices by collecting reports from consumers and conducting investigations, suing companies and people that break the law, developing rules to maintain a fair marketplace, and educating consumers and businesses about their rights and responsibilities.

In all other industries consumers are able to rate the performance of service providers and potential investors have a right to have these insights. For some of us the $$$ we invest is very significant. 

How you share your feedback does matter. I share my experience based on truths and facts and have evidence to support them should this end up in court. 

I'm speaking up because the Djuric Family Office failed to operate the deal according to the promises they made to investors.

Promised -> Received
- Quarterly investor reports -> were either not received unless I asked for them, or they were received 2-3 months late.
- K-1s by end Q1 -> K-1s received Sept-Oct every year.
- Robust investor portal -> portal not actively used.
- Direct investment in the deals -> one of the deals turned out to be a fund of funds investment.
- Prompt & transparent communications -> very poor, e.g. in Apr 2024 I was informed the property had been foreclosed in Dec 2023. 
- Lead operator in the deals -> well not really. 

Had this information been available to me before I invested with DFO I would have passed. 

    Post: Has anyone invested with Djuric Family Office aka Blake Capital Group

    Cheryl AbramPosted
    • Investor
    • Springville, UT
    • Posts 17
    • Votes 7

    Update: the second deal just failed with complete loss of all investments. Another "perfect storm of uncontrollable events".

    With both failed deals they are pointing blame on poor performance from the companies they hired to manage the property and to do the renovations, which raises a few questions:

    1) how can/should LPs perform due diligence on these to be hired companies?

    2) seems to me(not confirmed) that the GPs failed to vett out & manage the performance of these hired companies properly & promptly. As an owner of single family rentals, it's on me to adequately vett out and keep on top of the performance of my property managers. So my question is how can/should LPs verify the lip service GPs give on their experience and handling of this space? 

    3) GPs tout years of experience in this space, how can LPs stay on top of GPs staying on top of hired companies? 

    Feels so overwhelming for an LP.

    Post: Syndicator Threatens LPs for Negative Comment about them On BP

    Cheryl AbramPosted
    • Investor
    • Springville, UT
    • Posts 17
    • Votes 7
    Quote from @Scott Trench:

    I don't know who needs to read this, but I feel it needs to be posted, publicly.

     Recently the following happened:

    - BP Member posts negative statement about syndicator to these forums, involving lost money, poor communication, etc.

    - Syndicator is radio silent, apparently pretending not to notice dozens or hundreds of discussions about their business. Syndicator does not respond to thread.

    - Syndicator intimidates investor (who just lost tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars investing with said syndicator) with legal threat

    - Terrified LP, already having lost money, now is scared that wealthy syndicator could ruin them, and asks me to remove the forum post discussing the company

    While I am in no position to verify the truth or falsity of claims made on these forums by LPs or GPs, to me, it seems like a special hell is emerging for investors where the following reality is possible:

    - Invest tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars with a syndicator

    - Lose all or most of this investment

    - Get ghosted/poor communication from sponsor

    - When they complain or ask for help, get threatened with legal action

    I told the person with the original post the following: 

    - Name the syndicator, and I will publicly call them out for their threat, if they confirm who it is. I will invite the syndicator to confirm or deny the threat publicly. The member who messaged me has not confirmed who it was and named two people in their post. Otherwise, I'd be naming them right now.

    - If the syndicator actually sues this member, we will make the litigation a headline issue in every major BiggerPockets content channel, including YouTube, Blog, Podcast, and these forums. We will cover the story in detail, with regular updates, through to resolution. 

    After all, Investors need to know which sponsors sue their own investors after allegedly losing their money and ghosting them.

    - If the OP is lying, we will expose that and call out the syndicator's innocence, of course.

    - If the OP is generally telling the truth, we will expose the syndicator's performance and behavior in threatening and suing their own investor as far and wide as we possibly can. We will evaluate their portfolio, estimating the purchase price and current value of every deal they've done from the beginning of time. We will research occupancy rates, and report on outcomes.

    I am disgusted by the accusation, if true, made by this recent member, and while this is the most egregious situation to date, it's part of a disturbing pattern. The power dynamic between GP and LP is out of control. I have received multiple DMs from terrified members intimidated by wealthy sponsors, asking them to pull down their forum posts, even though they claim they posted truthful information.

    We will rectify that power dynamic. 

    Maybe some GPs can intimidate their own LPs in private. But, not here on BiggerPockets. If you do that, we will come after you.

    Syndicators - by all means, defend your reputation and set the record straight. If someone says something untrue about your business, respond and tell us what's really going on. 

    But, be warned, GPs - if you threaten your LPs for posting generally accurate negative stuff about you on BiggerPockets, we will make a public example of you for all to see.

    Hi Scott, thanks for starting this thread. This happened to me recently. I invested two deals with Djuric Family Office (DFO) also know as Blake Capital Group. When the first deal failed I turned to BP to get answers to questions I had that were not being answered by DFO and share my experience with other LPs.

    Within a few days I received an email DFO stating:

    "I will be sending you a legal letter in the mail and email tomorrow regarding your false and misleading internet comments."

    To date no letter has been received.

    The second deal just failed with complete loss of all investments. I'll be updating my experience on BP, so who knows what will happen next.


    Post: Has anyone invested with Djuric Family Office aka Blake Capital Group

    Cheryl AbramPosted
    • Investor
    • Springville, UT
    • Posts 17
    • Votes 7

    Regarding the views on high returns, what advice do you have for small scale investors? If it appears to good to be true it probably is? 

    Why do large investment companies solicit small $50k -100k investments for multi million $ investments from people they find on Facebook?

    Post: Has anyone invested with Djuric Family Office aka Blake Capital Group

    Cheryl AbramPosted
    • Investor
    • Springville, UT
    • Posts 17
    • Votes 7
    Quote from @Chris Seveney:

    @Cheryl Abram

    Out of curiosity what type of return were they promoting?

    Curious as another poster is intrigued by the 24% but it sounds like your return is negative 100%.

    Common syndicator game of throwing out huge returns when other funds are going under because they want you to only look at that shiny number and not what their past performance has been

    @Chris Seveney

    25.7% Annualized Return / 21.7% IRR.

    This was my first passive investment and yes I was under educated, naive and attracted by the expressed returns. I did what I felt was good amount of due diligence, but in hindsight I missed some deeper layers of analysis. 

    My biggest frustration isn't with the deal failure itself, it's more with the operating performance of the GP and honestly I'm not sure how an LP can really determine this. Ask for references which are hand picked by the GP? I don't think so. Social media seems the best resource for this nowadays.

    Out of curiosity, what recourse do LPs have when GPs fail to operate according to the operating agreement? Fail to produce K-1s in time for LP tax returns to completed on time, refuse to communicate with LPs, when LPs start to express frustration.

    Cheryl

    Post: Has anyone invested with Djuric Family Office aka Blake Capital Group

    Cheryl AbramPosted
    • Investor
    • Springville, UT
    • Posts 17
    • Votes 7
    Quote from @Anastasia Foster:

    Hi I am currently looking into their fix and flip fund- their 24% pref is hard to pass up but also doing my due diligence since I have not worked with them before

    @Anastasia Foster

    Perhaps a data point for your due diligence. My experience with Djuric Family Office aka now the Blake Capital Group, has not been great. Some of my frustrations include:

    • - Zero transparency on where my funds were being invested. Everything presented indicated I was investing directly in the deal, however it now seems I was investing in DFO and DFO was investing in the deal. 
    • - Investor reports were either not received unless I asked for them, or they were received 2-3 months late.
    • - K-1s were not made available until mid Sept every year.
    • - Communication is poor, I have to repeatedly chase for updates. Several of my questions were intentionally avoided and unanswered.
    • - Documents were promised week after week, but never delivered.
    • - The investment portal is not properly managed, kept up to date or actively used to track financial progress of LP investments. Took many months of chasing to have record of my funding recorded in the portal.
    • - One deal failed and the property sold in Dec, however I was not informed until Apr the following year by the lead operator. In Sept I'm still waiting for an official announcement and legal documents to be provided.
    My second investment with them is also on the verge of failing with the property heading for foreclosure.

    Best of luck, Cheryl

    Post: Has anyone invested with Djuric Family Office aka Blake Capital Group

    Cheryl AbramPosted
    • Investor
    • Springville, UT
    • Posts 17
    • Votes 7

    Has anyone invested with the Ian Djuric at the Blake Capital Group (https://blakecapitalgroup.com/) formerly Djuric Family Office (http://djuricfamilyoffice.com/)? If so, what experience have you had?

    Thanks!

    Post: Has anyone invested with Djuric Family Office aka Blake Capital Group

    Cheryl AbramPosted
    • Investor
    • Springville, UT
    • Posts 17
    • Votes 7

    Has anyone invested with the Ian Djuric at the Blake Capital Group (https://blakecapitalgroup.com/) formerly Djuric Family Office (http://djuricfamilyoffice.com/)? If so, what experience have you had?

    Thanks!