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All Forum Posts by: Charles Moore

Charles Moore has started 19 posts and replied 108 times.

Bob, let me provide some background info - most importantly, I bought this condo as my first personal residence at the beginning of 2009 with 10% down and a fixed 30-yr mortgage. A growing family prompted me to upgrade to a nearby house, which we did in 2013. Thanks to reading material on BP, I'm renting out the condo from 2013 - 2016 to some ideal long-term tenants, and make about $100 in positive cashflow every month (my primary purpose was just to have them cover the condo mortgage + insurance + property taxes + HOA dues + maintenance costs until the condo appreciated enough with the recovering market to sell for a profit). The condo has appreciated quite a bit now and is predicted to keep doing so throughout the next year. When I sell next year, I may have a $75K net profit after closing costs, improvements, realtor fees, etc. I want to do a 1031 exchange with that. I could use that as a down payment on typical $375K SFH here in the Seattle area and manage it myself again, and at most I might get $300-$400 positive net cash flow every month. However, I'm busy with career and family and can probably count on more maintenance involvement with this new property, and a PM would of course decrease the net cash flow. I'm thinking of doing what other BP investors in expensive areas have done: put my money in less expensive markets where it can go further. Specifically Memphis invest with Chris Clothier. I figure I can get multiple properties with the $75K divided up into the down payments for each of them, and cash flow of closer to $1000/month from all combined. Plus their well regarded PM.

As for rose-colored glasses, this is just one option I am researching now, part of which is talking with other BP members. I've read some bad turn key stories as well as good, so remaining objective is my main criteria.

Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Originally posted by @Charles Moore:

I wouldn't go so far as to call this condo a golden goose. One of the problems is that the HOA only allows so many non-owner occupied units there, and that allowance is always maxed out. If and when my tenants leave, I would go to the bottom of the waiting list to rent it out again and thereby be sitting on a cash drain with the mortgage and HOA dues, and I would not even consider moving out of my primary residence to live there due to the space my family needs. Besides, my rate of return for cash flow on this is very low, and I hate dealing with the HOA and their incompetent property management.

 OK, Golden Game Hen.  Why you you buy a rental investment in a rent restrictive building?

How are you calculating your cash flow rat of return? Why not 1031 to a property with a better HOA in a non restrictive rental building that has the same or better appreciation rate that what you have?

Run the numbers for yourself but you seem to be trading tens/hundreds  of thousands of appreciation  dollars(capital gains) for a few hundred a month of possible cash flow.  I can understand where you made some mistakes in this investment but to think that you're going to give up real estate investing by handing someone thousands of miles away several hundred thousand dollars and expect them to make money for you is a little too much rose colored glasses scenario for me.

I wouldn't go so far as to call this condo a golden goose. One of the problems is that the HOA only allows so many non-owner occupied units there, and that allowance is always maxed out. If and when my tenants leave, I would go to the bottom of the waiting list to rent it out again and thereby be sitting on a cash drain with the mortgage and HOA dues, and I would not even consider moving out of my primary residence to live there due to the space my family needs. Besides, my rate of return for cash flow on this is very low, and I hate dealing with the HOA and their incompetent property management.

Originally posted by @Dave Foster:

@Charles Moore, You've actually got a couple of opportunities here.  If you plan to sell within 3 years of when you moved out you will indeed get to apply the sec 121 exclusion and as a married couple take the first $500K in gain tax free as @Mark Ainleysaid.  If you choose to reinvest that gain then great but you can do it however you want apart with no tax consequence from the sale.

If you wait until after 3 years from when you moved out then you no longer apply for the primary residence exclusion but you could do a 1031.  What you are talking about doing is a diversification exchange.  Selling one and buying several usually smaller properties.  Here's the trick to that process.  At the end of the 45 day identification period you must have a list of potential replacements in place and you may only complete the exchange with one or more of those properties on your list.

If your list is three or fewer properties then it doesn't matter how much they are worth.

If you want to end up purchasing more than three properties then your list will have to be more than three.  You can do that but the aggregate value of the list cannot be more than 200% of the value of what you sold.  Example - if you sold for $400K and named four $200K properties as your replacement list that would be fine.  But if you sold for $400K and put three $200K and one $250K property on your list that would disallow your exchange.

However, if you have to name more than three properties and the properties you have to name total more than 200% of what you sold you may still do it but only if you close on at least 95% of the value of the list.  In the example above naming 4 properties worth a total $850K and your sale was $400K you can only complete your exchange by purchasing at least 95% of the $850K list - or in actuality all 4 properties.  So you have to be really certain and focused to make this happen.

A good QI will steer you through this maze.  But I would definitely pursue the sec 121 exclusion first.

 Hi, Dave! In doing a section 121, would depreciation I took on the rental be recaptured? Might be a moot point, though, because according to the calendar days between my move out and my projected sale date, I think I will not make the 2-year minimum requirements, so 1031 is probably the next best option using the 200% rule.

I've also heard on the rich dad series that most qualified intermediaries are not regulated and pool all their clients' funds together for their own investing purposes, rather than having individual accounts for each client, and this presents the possibility of their losing some of the investor's funds that were earmarked for the 1031. Know anything about this?

Thanks!

Originally posted by @John Thedford:

Talk to a 1031 company. It is my understanding that you can identify up to three different properties without restrictions. If you identify four or more, those four properties value cannot exceed 200% of the value of the property you wish to relinquish.

 Yes, I've read about that, too. I would search for 4-5 properties that fall under the 200% rule. Thanks for the quick reply!

Originally posted by @Marco Santarelli:

Hello again @Charles Moore,

Again, welcome to BiggerPockets.  This seems like a duplicate post.

First of all, you can do a 1031 exchange into any number of properties, in any market in the US, provided you follow the exchange rules.

You have 45 days from the day you sell your other property(ies) to identify your new 1031 properties for the exchange. The rules are very strict and you must identify those properties within that period and you cannot change it thereafter.

After that you have up to 180 days to close escrow on those properties.  No extensions are allowed without incurring taxes on your unused exchange funds.

Seattle is a pricey market, so like much of coastal Cali, I can see why you would want to leverage up your portfolio of properties using the equity from your WA condo.  (The HOW really cuts into you cash flow too.)

Memphis is a good market.  What other markets have you looked at or considered?

Continued success!

 Thanks for the quick reply! Yeah, I did inadvertently make a duplicate post. My first one resulted in a website technical error message which made me think it did not post.

I've read good things about Indianapolis, Kansas City, and Cleveland. Already checked out Texas, Birmingham, and Atlanta; found some things about each that don't match my search criteria.

Hi, BP!

Just joined up after being a long-time reader because I finally need to ask: when doing a 1031 exchange, is it realistic to identify and secure 4-5 properties in the 45-day identification period (and abiding by all the other 1031 rules)? I'm thinking of doing this through Memphis Invest properties with Chris Clothier. The numbers indicate I can get better net cash flow and rate of return in that part of the country than in Seattle.

Hi, BP!

I just joined after having read numerous articles and forums on here for some time now, and now I am planning my next move. 

Here's my situation: bought my first property - a condo - in the north Seattle area as my personal residence at the beginning of 2009. A growing family prompted me to upgrade to a nearby house, which we did in 2013. Thanks to reading material on BP, I'm renting out the condo from 2013 - 2016 to some ideal long-term tenants, and make about $100 in positive cashflow every month (my primary purpose was just to have them cover the condo mortgage + insurance + property taxes + HOA dues + maintenance costs until the condo appreciated enough with the recovering market to sell for a profit). The condo has appreciated quite a bit now and is predicted to keep doing so throughout the next year. When I sell next year, I may have a $75K net profit after closing costs, improvements, realtor fees, etc. I want to do a 1031 exchange with that. I could use that as a down payment on typical $375K SFH here in the Seattle area and manage it myself again, and at most I might get $300-$400 positive net cash flow every month. However, I'm busy with career and family and can probably count on more maintenance involvement with this new property, and a PM would of course decrease the net cash flow. I'm thinking of doing what other BP investors in expensive areas have done: put my money in less expensive markets where it can go further. Specifically Memphis invest with Chris Clothier. I figure I can get multiple properties with the $75K divided up into the down payments for each of them, and cash flow of closer to $1000/month from all combined. Plus their well regarded PM.

So after researching Memphis Invest and reading up on 1031 exchange rules, my initial question is whether it is realistic to identify and secure 4 or 5 properties with the 45-day identification period allowed by the IRS?