Skip to content
×
Pro Members Get
Full Access!
Get off the sidelines and take action in real estate investing with BiggerPockets Pro. Our comprehensive suite of tools and resources minimize mistakes, support informed decisions, and propel you to success.
Advanced networking features
Market and Deal Finder tools
Property analysis calculators
Landlord Command Center
ANNUAL Save 16%
$32.50 /mo
$390 billed annualy
MONTHLY
$39 /mo
billed monthly
7 day free trial. Cancel anytime
×
Try Pro Features for Free
Start your 7 day free trial. Pick markets, find deals, analyze and manage properties.
All Forum Categories
All Forum Categories
Followed Discussions
Followed Categories
Followed People
Followed Locations
Market News & Data
General Info
Real Estate Strategies
Landlording & Rental Properties
Real Estate Professionals
Financial, Tax, & Legal
Real Estate Classifieds
Reviews & Feedback

All Forum Posts by: Cornelius Garland

Cornelius Garland has started 7 posts and replied 316 times.

Post: Hiring a Cold Caller

Cornelius GarlandPosted
  • Real Estate Consultant
  • Charlotte, NC
  • Posts 347
  • Votes 606
Quote from @Catie Fihn:

Is it worth it to hire a cold calling company instead of doing the cold-calling myself? The company I am considering states it would call for 4 hours per day, 20 hours per week, and generates an average of 6 leads per week. I have never cold-called before, so unsure if I should do it myself or go straight to hiring someone out. Looking for the pros and cons of both. Thanks!

@Catie Fihn I have ample experience with all of the outbound marketing channels, as I've been wholesaling full time since 2015. An important metric to track is how many leads it will take to get one property under contract from cold calling. Based on my company's metrics, we're averaging 100 leads to 1 contract with cold calling. In new virtual markets or cities where the median sales prices of homes are over $400k, it takes 200 leads to get a deal. In 2024, our cold callers averaged 1.5 leads per day, and I had 40 callers on my team.

Let's answer an even more pertinent question: How long will it take to get a contract from cold calling? On average, it took us 60 - 90 days for the hot leads to convert into a contract in 2024. 

If the agency you're using will generate 6 leads per week then you'll realistically get your first contract in 4 months.

Because of these abysmal contract timelines, I'm not suggesting my JV partners or clients utilize cold calling as their primary marketing channel. It was my main marketing channel from 2019 - 2023, but cold texting has since replaced it.

You can get the same lead volume from one day of texting 5,000 sellers as you would with 5 cold callers dialing for a month. At $5 per hour per cold caller, on the low end, your labor expenses will be at $4,000 per month. Texting 5,000 sellers at .0075 cents per text will cost $37.50, and this will generate roughly 50 leads per day. Additionally, the leads from texting are more motivated.

If you're considering cold calling, I would treat it like direct mail - you must go all in on it or else it doesn't make sense as a marketing channel. A part time caller, even on a very targeted and motivated list, will not generate enough leads to get a property under contract in the next 30 days.

I really do not like being the bearer of bad news, but I've seen so many investors go down the marketing route you're taking, and they end up spending all their hard-earned money on methods that do not work well. However, I do think it's the natural progression for many investors, and some lessons are better learned through experience.

At the end of the day, you'll need to choose the marketing channel that best fits your lifestyle, budget, and goals. For some investors, it's direct mail because they're in a rural market with many elder homeowners. For others, voice broadcast is crushing it. At the moment, my research indicates that cold texting is working extremely well in any market and demographic.

Lastly, I do not suggest to cold calling yourself unless you're dialing a very motivated list like an inherited or auction list. It's very difficult to keep up with cold calling daily especially when you're making offers, building a buyers list, and maintaining your family life outside of real estate. When you stop dialing, the leads stop. And when the leads stop, your business stops. As with any marketing channel, you see the best results by consistently reaching out to sellers daily.

I hope this helps and best of luck! You're on the right track and asking all the right questions.

Post: Lead generating services?

Cornelius GarlandPosted
  • Real Estate Consultant
  • Charlotte, NC
  • Posts 347
  • Votes 606
Quote from @Drew Mullin:

@Cornelius Garland thanks for the info. I have a little bit of oriented with financing but I'm hats about it. Do your texts usually start out same way? And how do you do the 10dl thing etc lol/what is it lol

You're welcome. There are certain words we need to avoid so the carriers won't flag us as spam. My message looks something like this: Hi, I'm interested in acquiring your property at 123 Main St. Are you considering parting ways with it?

It's important to avoid these words: sell, cash offer, buy, purchase, interested, etc. Any word that can be considered transactional should be avoided.

10 DLC registration can be a pain, but it's necessary so you can enable the texting feature in any software. I read all the regulations in 2023, and there was an update last month, which required me to update my SOPs. I taught myself how to submit the accounts for approval. It took me several tries the first time, but I've gotten several accounts approved since then. I mainly use REI Reply, and I can send off 5,000 texts per day in each account. I have 10 accounts, and I'm texting major volume daily. We get 50 - 100 leads per day and these sellers aren't in communication with other investors since they do not pick up for cold calls.

I would suggest using a lead gen service like Lead Mining Pros now to gain momentum. However, I would start working on getting a texting platform 10 DLC approved. The hassle is worth it, and cold texting is a blue ocean right now. There are very few marketing channels where there is literally no competition.

Post: Lead generating services?

Cornelius GarlandPosted
  • Real Estate Consultant
  • Charlotte, NC
  • Posts 347
  • Votes 606
Quote from @Drew Mullin:
Quote from @Cornelius Garland:

@Drew Mullin I know the owner, Nick; he's a solid guy. I would say that cold calling, in general, has been in decline over the last year. If you can have him do text blasts for you then I would go that route. You might not get much traction with his cold calling services. His service is for beginners to get you started, so the goal is to use his service to gain momentum and then potentially build out your own cold calling or texting team.

Thanks for the response- seems like a couple people vouch for him. That's good to hear. In general texting is more effective? 


Based on the KPIs I'm tracking, yes texting is more effective, and it's not even close. In 2015, I started using direct mail and landed my first several deals this way. Once skip tracing became accessible and reliable, I switched to cold calling primarily as my marketing channel in 2019. Around this time is when I started cold texting. It was effective back then, but it quickly became saturated. During the pandemic, hundreds of new investors were entering the wholesaling business, and it caused immense marketing oversaturation. Some homeowners were getting 50 - 100 texts a week on one house. Consequently, the government introduced legislation in October 2023, which requires every business to register their companies with a federally regulated organization in order to text.

This brings us to today. Now that the laws were introduced, it essentially removed 99% of the investors who were texting. Many investors simply think it's illegal or ineffective. The truth is, the process to get your account 10DLC / A2P verified is not straightforward and the government prefers it like this. If you can overcome the obstacles with getting your account compliant, then it's worth it.

In the last 12 months, the majority of my deals came from cold texting and long term follow up from leads I had in my CRM. Very few came from cold calling and direct mail. I can get 5 - 20 leads per day texting, depending on how many texts I send. Currently, I'm averaging a 1% lead rate - 500 texts sent and 5 leads generated; 1000 texts sent and 10 leads generated, etc.

For cold calling it will take 1 full-time cold caller dialing over a month to get the same amount of leads I can get in a day with texting. It just doesn't make sense to cold call anymore. Until something changes, texting will be my number one marketing channel. I'm glad the regulations were put in place because I can go into any market and dominate it without competition, while keeping my cost per deal low.

Post: Lead generating services?

Cornelius GarlandPosted
  • Real Estate Consultant
  • Charlotte, NC
  • Posts 347
  • Votes 606

@Drew Mullin I know the owner, Nick; he's a solid guy. I would say that cold calling, in general, has been in decline over the last year. If you can have him do text blasts for you then I would go that route. You might not get much traction with his cold calling services. His service is for beginners to get you started, so the goal is to use his service to gain momentum and then potentially build out your own cold calling or texting team.

Post: HB917 in Virginia

Cornelius GarlandPosted
  • Real Estate Consultant
  • Charlotte, NC
  • Posts 347
  • Votes 606
Quote from @Andrew R. Lucas:

This is not good advice...  If a lawyer makes you sign something saying that they don't condone or support your activity then you should NOT do it!  

"Working around" the law is also known as Breaking the law.  

Build your business without shady shortcuts and you will sleep better, last longer and make more money.

Isn’t a CPA‘s sole purpose to ensure you pay the least amount in taxes by exploiting legal loopholes? How is this any different?
 

Post: In laws are distressed sellers

Cornelius GarlandPosted
  • Real Estate Consultant
  • Charlotte, NC
  • Posts 347
  • Votes 606

@Account Closed If you have a good relationship with them then I'd get a durable power of attorney for this specific property and cancel the MLS listing with the current agent. It might be priced too high and they might have it listed for the retail as-is price versus the true cash value. If it needs updating, even if there were repairs done over the years, then this will likely be a cash transaction that needs to sell to an investor.

With the POA, you can list it on the MLS yourself without having to involve them in all the paperwork. Before you do this, you should have a plan of action and feel confident in your ability to move it. More likely than not, it's priced too high. You can post the deal here on Bigger Pockets and there might be a buyer for it. I've wholesaled several deals to community members on this site.

You can get paid a percentage of the proceeds from the sale either on the HUD or outside of the closing.

Post: HB917 in Virginia

Cornelius GarlandPosted
  • Real Estate Consultant
  • Charlotte, NC
  • Posts 347
  • Votes 606

Great question, @Sergio Mosq. I've done several deals in the Hampton Roads area. I usually get a durable power of attorney from the seller, which allows me to list property on the MLS. I get paid a "marketing consulting fee" on the HUD instead of an assignment fee.

If you are using a purchase and sales contract, double closing should work. A similar law went into effect in South Carolina. Attorneys have wholesalers sign a disclosure form that they won't be held legally liable for closing the transaction. I suggest calling around to investor friendly attorneys to see if they'd be open to it. There's always a hungry attorney looking to bolster their business, while some attorneys may simply say "no". You just need one to work so I would find your guy and lean on his advice on how to structure your deals.

There's always a work around. Money is made in the grey area similar to how corporations exploit tax loopholes. It's the same thing here.

Post: Cold Calling vs. Text Marketing: Which Gets More Leads?

Cornelius GarlandPosted
  • Real Estate Consultant
  • Charlotte, NC
  • Posts 347
  • Votes 606

Texting brings in way more leads than cold calling. It's not even close right now. I'm in several virtual markets and primarily wholesaling. We're getting 5 solid leads for every 500 texts sent, which is a 1% lead rate. If you compare this to cold calling then you'll be lucky to get 1 lead a day per cold caller. 

Cold calling was my primary marketing channel for years and I managed over 40 cold callers at one point. To get the same daily production from cold calling as I do with texting, then I would need 3 cold callers at a minimum. At $5 per your for each cold caller, your monthly expenses would be $2,400 just for cold callers. This doesn't include data and dialers. If each cold caller generated 1.5 leads per day, which is what my callers are averaging, then you can expect 30 leads per cold caller over a 20 business day month - totalling 90 leads for the month.

Based on my metrics, it's taking us roughly 50 - 100 leads to get a property under contract with cold calling. The market matters a lot. If it's an affluent market then the number will be closer to 100. However, regardless of the market, we are experiencing long contract timelines across the board. It's taking 60 - 90 days for these cold call leads to convert to contracts. I can send off a text blast this week of 500 texts per day and have a contract by the end of next week. My contract timeline is 9 days - 45 days with texting.

The people saying that it's illegal have not thoroughly read through the regulations. Ask yourself this: If texting was illegal, would Launch Control have thousands of users? What about Lead Sherpa and REI Reply (the one I use)?

These companies have done their due diligence and understand the laws. The important part is that you become 10DLC / A2P compliant and you follow best practices. It isn't the wild west like it was before 2023. However, it can still be done legally and ethically.

Texting is a blue ocean right now because investors have trouble getting their accounts registered with the organization that approves 10DLC account requests. Additionally, they are blasting thousands of sellers at once, which is causing their accounts to receive 24-hour bans. 

Navigating through these issues was worth it for me because I can go in any market and target homeowners who haven't been marketed to at all by other investors.

Below are KPIs for a campaign I did in Savannah recently for texting. We averaged 6 leads per day and sent 337 messages. The daily costs for the texts sent and received were below $10. For cold calling, it would take me 1 week of dialing and paying a cold caller $200 for this same production, and that's being very optimistic about my cold caller's performance.

Post: I had a Virtual Assistant Steal $3,000 From Me - Lessons Learned from 10 Years in REI

Cornelius GarlandPosted
  • Real Estate Consultant
  • Charlotte, NC
  • Posts 347
  • Votes 606

@Don Konipol You're very right, Don. This is a reason why I've been hesitant talking about this until after the election. I do think the tide is turning and the "social justice" extremism is correcting itself. I was flabbergasted when I saw a publication released by a university titled "Strengths So White" - essentially arguing that Clifton Strengthsfinder, a personality assessment conducted by Gallup, is racially biased. It irks me to no end. I value the truth and try my best to look at situations as objectively as possible. Here's the article if you're interested. I couldn't make it pass the first couple of pages.

Post: I had a Virtual Assistant Steal $3,000 From Me - Lessons Learned from 10 Years in REI

Cornelius GarlandPosted
  • Real Estate Consultant
  • Charlotte, NC
  • Posts 347
  • Votes 606

Biggerpockets has been a tremendous wealth of information joined in 2015. The posts that have been the most helpful have been the ones where others have shared their experiences, so I'd like to share a story of when I had a virtual assistant steal $3,000 from me. Hopefully, it can help others from making the same mistake I did. This is not to dissuade investors from building a team because I wouldn't be able to virtually wholesale in several markets without one. Recently, I've noticed investors are often too black and white in their viewpoints in the forums, and this imbalance can lead to some being overly cautious and not taking action or taking action without conducting proper research.

In 2018, I hired an executive assistant from Upwork who had a great resume, said the right things during the interview, and had impeccable English.

From the day she joined my team, I found myself limiting her role and tasks because her skills were limited. Eventually, it got to the point where I reduced her role to part time and then had to let her go. It felt like we parted ways amicably, and I never once expressed frustration with her. I just told her that "I didn't have any tasks for her and I will let her know if something changed. Let's keep in touch.".

I thought we ended on our working relationship on great terms. Two weeks later while I was up at 3 AM working on my business, I saw that my PayPal password was changed and I was locked out of my account. I received emails that $500 was being transferred to her. I felt completely helpless. This happened every 5 minutes 6 times. She could have drained my entire account, as I had a significant amount of funds in there.

Luckily, I was able to lock my account by using my main email, but PayPal was not able to be reached this early. I called them the next day, and they wouldn't give me my money back because they said that whoever accessed my account was given the password. I lost $3,000, and it could have been much worse.

This is the cost of making bad hires. From this point, I decided to create my own framework for hiring executive assistants, cold callers, lead managers, and acquisitions managers so I would never be bamboozled again. I look at two variables: Their MBTI (16 Personalities Type) and their birthday. These two variables tell a lot about someone. I have grouped each birthday into what roles are best for my company and which ones I would never hire.

Pro tip: People born in late-March, April and early-to-mid May make the best employees for an REI business. ANYTIME I deviate from my process and make an exception for someone, thy never work out.

The key takeaway is to ensure you have some way of vetting people and they have the right character and cognitive skills to succeed because you have a lot of people who are great at selling themselves.

ENTJs and ENFJs are the most common personality type you'll encounter when you're recruiting employees. See the image below of my hiring spreadsheet, with over 70% of them being ENTJs and ENFJs.




ENTJs often lack attention to detail and can be cut corners if they do not like the job they're doing. So if you need an operations manager or administrative specialist where attention to detail is paramount, I'd advise not hiring them for this role - barring certain birthdays (August 26th to September 4th).

ENFJs are great communicators but not great negotiators, so they make excellent cold callers but not lead managers or acquisitions managers.

Are there exceptions to the rule? YES, so please do not take what I'm saying as the absolute 100% truth. But for the most part, what I'm saying is accurate. When you layer the birthday profile with the MBTI, you can get 95% accuracy.

Let me know your thoughts.