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All Forum Posts by: Bradley Marion

Bradley Marion has started 1 posts and replied 30 times.

Post: Possible to grow without taking on debt?

Bradley MarionPosted
  • Real Estate Investor
  • Dayton, OH
  • Posts 31
  • Votes 6

@Jason V. – Bump for debt-averse. So many tragic things have happened when people leveraged the farm to scoop up property in the housing bubble. It amazes me how people can confuse their primary residence with their business work. If you want to be successful you need to understand that you are running a business and treat it like so. That means having completely different books, bank accounts, LLC incorporation's and doing everything to keep it from being able to affect your personal life if everything should go south. That means even treating it with a whole different mindset than you would treat your own life. If you would take out a 100% financed loan on your primary residence, that does not mean you should be doing that for an REI business. After all do you really like the sound of getting foreclosed on if you cannot fill the vacancy? That is the only thing you never have to worry about with your primary residence.

Post: Possible to grow without taking on debt?

Bradley MarionPosted
  • Real Estate Investor
  • Dayton, OH
  • Posts 31
  • Votes 6

@Alex Franks Sounds like you have done some great work! I too used to be interested in flipping. But after doing a few with my family I decided the work was not for me. Leverage seems to be a tool that can be used with great caution from what I am hearing. Like what you're doing out there, keep it up!

Post: Possible to grow without taking on debt?

Bradley MarionPosted
  • Real Estate Investor
  • Dayton, OH
  • Posts 31
  • Votes 6

@Brandon Cravens - I appreciate the pointers for the tools available on BP, I did not even know they had those. I know the calculations get confusing quickly, I don't even know how to calculate CapEx and I own a few rental properties

Post: Possible to grow without taking on debt?

Bradley MarionPosted
  • Real Estate Investor
  • Dayton, OH
  • Posts 31
  • Votes 6

@Jacob Sampson - That does make things complicated. I just figured all rental property that is decent has a positive cash flow. I never thought about the buy down of principle that you are referring too but yeah I know I want all of my property to be long term buy and hold so I would want to know the true cash flow

Post: Possible to grow without taking on debt?

Bradley MarionPosted
  • Real Estate Investor
  • Dayton, OH
  • Posts 31
  • Votes 6

@Jacob Sampson Employees (Tenants) - That's funny, So cash flow? I am not the business major I should have been but I thought all rentals that paid the mortgage and had profit left over were "cash flow" positive

Post: Possible to grow without taking on debt?

Bradley MarionPosted
  • Real Estate Investor
  • Dayton, OH
  • Posts 31
  • Votes 6

@Robert G. That is a good way to look at it. I think risk vs reward is certainly a key. Market fluctuations make me nauseous. I am from the Midwest where there was very little market fluctuations even during the 08 phase, we did not see the swings like on the coasts. However I would like to buy properties to keep for life and into retirement so I don't give a rip what they are worth after I buy them

Post: Possible to grow without taking on debt?

Bradley MarionPosted
  • Real Estate Investor
  • Dayton, OH
  • Posts 31
  • Votes 6
Originally posted by @Dax Desai:
Originally posted by @Account Closed:

@Bradley Marion I am also debt averse. While it has slowed my pace in buying rentals it substantially reduces risk. The way I see it instead of buying 5-10 units a year I buy 1-2. This allows me to dollar cost average into the market over 10 years or so. Reduces the risk of buying too many at the wrong time.

 Low-debt is a viable strategy.  However I don't consider real estate dollar cost averaging the same as the stock market.  If for example the SP500 PE average is 30 this year, and drops to 24 next year it would have a dramatic effect on the price of the stock.

Conversely if you own real estate you are more inclined to be concerned with the actual cash flow as opposed to the valuation overall because your timeline is much longer (generally).  In addition you are paying down debt over time.  While it is possible you may pay $100K this year and $80K next year for the same property, such wide swings aren't typical as it is with the stock market.  In addition if you are cashflowing at $100k, you are not really feeling any pain when you could've bought it at 80K.  Overtime things will average out in your favor.  I would consider the 100 down to 80 a dramatic and less likely movement in price.

I have a commercial property I put in $200K on with my share of the debt at 800K.  While my yearly cashflow share is 30% or $60k, my net worth is increasing with the debt paydown.  My NetWorth is increasing each year with debt paydown until ultimately I'll have 800K on the assets side of my balance sheet if I make no other investments.  If I were to save to 800K, the odds are I would never be able to accumulate that much money without debt.

This is my personal view.  I'm not judging no-debt strategies.  The one thing you have me beat on is risk.  Leverage inherently has risk associated with it.  As an investor I believe you have to take on some risk to make more money.

 Great point @Dax Desai! I completely agree with this, the risk is a big factor if you want to wager it or not. Sounds like you have a solid plain. Maybe something more like a 50% down deal over 10 years would be something I might enjoy more (with the option to pay off early) than the traditional 30 year loan. I can't stand the idea of thinking about owing somebody for 30 years personally, makes me cringe

Post: Possible to grow without taking on debt?

Bradley MarionPosted
  • Real Estate Investor
  • Dayton, OH
  • Posts 31
  • Votes 6

Yes it has been slow, I mean very slow acquiring property with cash only. My goals are just to grow my business with minimum risk. I work full time so I am not a "full time" investor but I do put a lot into the properties I own and make sure everything runs smoothly. I just want to build equity really. @Nick Cachaldora That sounds like a solid plan! I am not trying to get rich per-se but just want good stable income without having third parties (Banks/Lenders) to answer to if I can not fill a vacancy or something like that. Getting foreclosed on would be my biggest fear I'd say

Thanks @Jacob Sampson I was thinking that' what most people do. I bought my first one as my own house (paid cash), then my job took me out of state so it became a rental since I spent so much to get it into great shape

Post: Possible to grow without taking on debt?

Bradley MarionPosted
  • Real Estate Investor
  • Dayton, OH
  • Posts 31
  • Votes 6

I see your point! Sounds like taking on the debt would definitely allow me to grow my cash assets much faster. Is that what most people involved in REI are engauging in?

Post: Possible to grow without taking on debt?

Bradley MarionPosted
  • Real Estate Investor
  • Dayton, OH
  • Posts 31
  • Votes 6

Would anyone recommend taking on properties only as you can afford to buy them cash? Or is taking on debt in order to secure new properties recommended.

Currently I do not like debt because of the obvious cost of borrowing money, however I know I could have many more properties if I went the loan route.