@James Green fair enough. I definitely over-analyze. Things seem to be going all right since I talked with them. We'll see how it all pans out from here.
@Spencer Hollen thanks for the well-wishes. Sometime here soon I think I'm going to make a little one-room man cave or something to learn a lot of that stuff. Jim K. has been really helpful so far on advice on insulation, and we're going to discuss drywall soon once I finish my garage ceiling. I know 1 contractor, but he's not reliable at all, so I need to start looking. Maybe I'll join a home improvement forum soon and see if I can find anyone local who wouldn't mind me apprenticing for cheap. I ended up installing some window units myself. I was hesitant to because our windowsills are so small and I was afraid of the units falling 2 stories, but they're in there really good I think. That alone really showed me that a lot of this stuff I don't know isn't as bad as it seems once I take a little time to learn it. I'm confident I can install those now without even looking at the instructions. I'm lucky it took the handymen I called several days to return my calls, otherwise I would have had them do it. I really think this is a turning point for me.
@Dennis M. YouTube has been really helpful. For the window units, I found a guy with virtually the same setup I had as far as the specific kind of window unit and windowsill size. Hearing him say stuff like "I've never seen these braces before, but I might use them" helped me to understand that I have a lot more wiggle room with home repairs than I thought. I've always been so detailed-oriented that I often get tripped up and agonize over little things that don't really matter, and that's prevented me from even starting a lot of projects in the past.
@Wesley W. I do have a clause in my lease about pets, and we discussed it at lease signing, but they went ahead and did it anyway. My big concern was proving the cat was there now that I've decided to do something about it. The 2 times I went in there since initially finding the cat, they removed every trace of it - no food, litter box, toys, nothing. I have to give 24 hours notice, so they would always have time. And you know, the first time they said they were holding it for a friend, and even though I didn't believe it, it'd be hard to prove the cat was still there so long after the fact. I've never filed for an eviction but I feel like there's a chance a judge wouldn't side with me there. It just seemed so murky when that was all I had to go by. Luckily though, when I mentioned the cat to them last week, they admitted to having it without a fuss. I really couldn't believe it. The sassy one said it was her "dead friend's" - I'm pretty sure she thought she could guilt me into not doing anything about it, but I reaffirmed my stance by saying "It's your cat now, you can either get rid of it or pay the fee." And you know what? They paid it. I really didn't expect it to work out so well. But I think I scared them when I said the word "eviction". I hope it works out, too. I'm not being Mr. Nice Guy anymore though. We had a talk about how we have a business relationship, and from now on I will strictly follow the lease and I expect them to do the same. So far, they seem a lot more agreeable since I began installing the window units. As childish as they are, I think a lot of their frustration was coming from the feeling that I was neglecting their well-being. We'll see though.
@Account Closed you have a good point. She was still breathing this morning at least, but it is something I've been wary of for the past month and a half. I've had several friends make similar claims over the past couple years - and a family member who actually went through with it about 3 years ago. Ever since then, I never assume they don't mean it, even though I know a lot of people really just want help or attention. But that's the thing that makes me stop and think - does she want help or does she want attention? A lot of times, treating something like a problem only seems to make the problem worse, but then again, ignoring it might make it worse too. It's a flip of a coin in my, admittedly limited, experience. It's like how they say sending people to prison only makes them better criminals. And people might think I'm foolish for saying that and I need to get her out of that apartment and get her help, but I know what they'd do if I got law enforcement involved. They'd take her to this rehab center that's known for getting people addicted to painkillers, which seems to be pretty widespread in our country. My friend's brother talked about suicide in the 9th grade (knowing him, I'm 99% sure that was just for attention), but his parents committed him to that center and when he got out, he was asking his mom to ask my mom (a nurse) if she had any spare syringes because he just thought they were cool all of a sudden. What's cool about a syringe, Mark? You just like how pokey they are? You sure it doesn't have anything to do with you wanting to get high? But he seems all right now. He's majoring in chemistry, which can have pretty decent pay. He's probably forgotten about the whole syringe thing at this point. But anyway, all I'm saying is if I try to get her help, she might get hooked on something at the very least and that's not really going to help her; at the worst it could be the final straw that makes her actually go through with it. Imagine you feel like you're at rock bottom and there's no hope for you, and then the police show up to take you away. People might say her actions aren't my responsibility, and I agree. But no matter if I intervene or not, if she offs herself, I'm going to be thinking about how I could have helped that not to happen. It'll be on her, but I'll still feel bad about it. I'd rather not add to her worries if I can help it though, but like I've been saying, that won't stop me from enforcing the lease. She's made it clear she has emotional baggage, but I don't think I could get her the help she needs without getting too involved. If I have to clean up a body, then I guess I've got to clean up a body. At least the flooring is only vinyl. But if the roommate does go on vacation like you said, you better believe I'm going to be checking in "to see how the window units are doing". Maybe that's a way I could have gotten them out though. I didn't think about that until just now. If she got committed, the other one wouldn't be able to pay rent and I could probably pay her off, or she might just leave of her own will. I don't know how I feel about that though.
@Dennis M. thanks, I have been trying to look at it that way. I know my frustration on here doesn't communicate that very well haha. I will for sure know better next time.
@Jill F. I've hadn't heard of those before yesterday. Thanks for the suggestion, I'll look into those. I already got a window unit, but it looks like the apartment doesn't have the correct outlet for it, so I'm going to have to take that back anyway. I'll see if they have any of those in the morning.
Good point, I'll do that. Odds are they'll try and hide the cat from me. When I discovered it last time they said they "were holding it for a friend". I haven't gone into much detail about the cat because that wasn't what the post was originally about, but I knew about the cat for a few weeks prior to them admitting it was there. My roommate saw it through the window and I heard it scampering around a few times I was in the garage doing woodwork. I should've taken a picture of it when I was checking on the AC while they were in the hotel room, but at least we have 3 witnesses. I could check around the trash too for litter and food containers. At lease signing, one of them said she was thinking about getting a cat, and I said when she did, let me know and I'd give her an application and she could pay the fee, as it's written in the lease. I will stand firm and say I know the cat is theirs, and either way it has stayed overnight and the lease says that if they want to keep a pet on the premises, they must pay a pet fee. If they hide it or try and pass it off like it's back with their friend or own up and say it was theirs but they got rid of it, I think I'd need to seek legal advice since I don't have hard proof of the cat. It's going to be more difficult since I waited so long, but who knows - maybe they'll take it for granted that I ignored it before and just have the cat out in the open assuming I'm not going to do anything?
@Amy Beth I did not mean to give the impression I wasn't going to handle the cat issue. I feel like I was pretty straight forward in my last comment about that, but maybe I wasn't. I will tell them they have to pay the fee when I'm there tomorrow after I'm done installing the unit during the conversation about mutual respect. It'll kill 3 birds with 1 stone, and let them know this is the new normal. If they refuse to pay, I will evict them. I have not disregarded any advice you guys have given me.
@Dennis M. thank you Dennis, I am quickly learning that.
@Derek Janssen yeah the "good people" comment has gone from the "roll-my-eyes" zone to the "red flag" zone.
The screening is totally on me, there was no slipping through the cracks on their part. There were some red flags right off the bat relating to their maturity levels, iffy financial situation, and poor financial decision-making skills. But I won't get into that more than to say they have a tendency to overshare and seem to be in a perpetual state of angst. Sally assured me they're "good people", and while I cringe every time I hear someone say something like that, I figured she's young and trying to make a good impression and will maybe learn one day that kind of stuff makes her sound silly. But I gave them a chance since they're just starting out. It was foolish of me though and I realize that now.
As far as the suicide stuff goes, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. I was coming up the steps to their porch to tell her I was going to get them a room while the clog gets fixed and she was crying. I asked if she'd rather me wait to tell her the details and come back later, but she said it was fine. And then she offered all that info up to me. I didn't ask, it was just dumped in my lap.
I will definitely handle the cat thing as soon as the AC is settled. It might be easier to just fix this problem and keep them there for now. Like Joe said, I will have a civil talk with them about mutual respect and how I empathize with their climate condition, and apologize for getting heated. I worry they'll try and stop an eviction right now by claiming I'm doing it out of retaliation and say that I'm being negligent, even though while I knew the unit was on its last leg, yesterday was the first I heard about it getting so hot in there since it broke the first time. If they give me flack about the cat thing, out they go. Tell me if that sounds too lenient.
If there's one thing I know, it's not to take constructive criticism personally. "Sucking at something is the first step at being kind of good at something," is a quote I'm fond of. If I ran away crying every time someone told me something that made me feel dumb, where would I be in life? I'd be a lot dumber for it, going around acting like I'm always right and everyone owes me something, making excuses for myself. How far do those people usually get? Reality is there, and not acknowledging it would only get in my way.
Thanks for the heads up. We ended up going with a window unit that's 17,600 BTU from Lowe's ($600). The apartment is 700 sqft. and the unit is suggested for 750-1000 sqft. I hope that's good enough for this particular situation. I'm sure it'll be far more efficient than the garbage machine we have now. I probably should have still looked on Craigslist, but I'm worried I'll buy something that has a problem and can't be returned.
@Joe Splitrock I will apologize to them. I have a lot of social conditioning I need to undo. I am in control of my reactions regardless of what they say or do. I will fix the AC and then discuss all of this with them. Thank you for putting it into perspective. I want to be good at this, and I appreciate you and everyone else taking the time to give me advice.
@Jim K. thank you for your advice. I will speak to an attorney about the best way to get them out. I don't think they will go peacefully. Positions of power are not something I have a lot of experience with. I've always defaulted to letting people use me as a doormat just to avoid conflict, but here I am complaining about it when I'm the one that allowed it to happen. That's usually how it's gone in the past. I should have had a professional inspect the unit prior to all this. I'll make the fixes and start over.
@Derek Janssen I didn't even think to use Craigslist. I think I will go with a window unit or 2. Thanks for that.
@Amy Beth yeah, like I said to Jim, this has been a pattern with me. You're totally right. I'll definitely talk to a lawyer.
@Thomas S. I will talk to an attorney and do that if I have the grounds to. I would love to just have them gone. Could they not make a legitimate issue out of it since it's not in rent-ready condition though? I really have no idea. I'm hesitant to make a big move like that and then risk having them push back legally if I'm not in the right.
@Marian Smith I will definitely add house rules. I clearly can't take anything for granted in this business. Window units do seem like the best option here.
Thanks everyone else who provided constructive criticism. I appreciate you all taking the time to read my lengthy, whiny post. I have a lot of learning to do. When I wrote this there was still a naive part of me wondering if I was being unfair to them. When I have multiple people coming at me telling me I'm wrong, it's easy for me to doubt myself. But it seems to me that the wrongs I've done are as follows: I mislead them about the AC (unintentionally), I should not have engaged in their personal lives, and I should have screened better.
To fix this, I will do the following in this order: speak to a lawyer about how to remove them, install window units, check insulation in attic and walls, count my losses, write tenant rules, start over with better screening.
Hello Everyone,
This is going to be a little lengthy....
I'm a new landlord, and these are my first tenants. They live in an apartment above my garage. The lower half is not insulated, and the HVAC system is old but functional - though not really good. About a month back, the drip pan filled up and forced it to shut off. My tenants texted me that day telling me it was 97 degrees in the unit! I was out of town too, but I spent the next hour and a half calling people to see who could come out. I only found 1 guy able to do it the next morning.
So the guy came out the next day and cleaned the drip line and got a slow drip going. He told me that the unit was reaching the end of its life and couldn't figure out why it was dripping so slowly. He said a new unit would be like 4-5k and that's before construction costs since the attic opening is so tiny, it would have to be widened to actually get it up there. So I'm figuring more like 6-7k, all things considered. Maybe more? I don't know.... But for the time being, it was at least cooling. So I figured we were good - I'd keep checking to make sure it was dripping, and the tenants would let me know if it goes bad again. My girlfriend and I bought some blinds for the windows hoping that would help some - the unit had none, and I got some insulation to put on the garage ceiling. I was in the middle of putting up the insulation when one of the tenants came by to pick something up, and she was angry that the driveway had puddles in it from the rain and my truck was parked in the least-wet spot. I had only parked there to unload the insulation. So she yelled at me about that as she walked back to her car. This was 2 days after the ~$1600 butt-wipe/tampon sewage clog I decided not to take out of their security deposit, and after I got them a decent hotel room for 2 nights while the clog was being fixed. I already let them use $150 from their security deposit as a deposit to the power company because I hadn't told them they might need to do that (this is their first time renting). Not to mention I've so far turned a blind eye to the cat they snuck in (I explained at lease signing that's a $200 fee). Me and my girlfriend were actually checking up on it while they were in the hotel. We laugh about it, but it's got me feeling like a total beta in my own home. See I'm nice, right? But I feel I've been WAY too nice so far.
Another thing that's kind of important to note: while the AC guy was over, the one who didn't yell at me was home and she's apparently been going through stuff lately. At one point she was crying telling me she didn't care if she lived or died anymore and she had cut her wrists a few weeks ago (in MY unit, no less!) - I saw the marks but didn't think they were recent. They both had a friend that was killed less than a week before then so they were dealing with that. It's just been such a sticky situation, and I was trying to help them a bit by cutting them some slack. Probably would've been a bad time to bring up the pet fee.
Anyway, they got their power bill a few days after the guy fixed the AC and it was like $180 for the 700 sq.ft. apartment. I know that's a lot. They were keeping it in the low 70's, but I don't think it ever got that cool. And I felt bad because they asked me what the bill would be like when they signed the lease, and I said I just moved into the main house myself and it really varies, but I didn't expect it to go over the low $100's. They have brought that up several times now. I was wrong there, but I keep getting the impression they think I should reimburse them. I feel like as long as the unit is habitable, that's more their problem than mine. So here's two questions: am I wrong in assuming this? And if I am wrong, how low does their power bill need to get down to for it to not be my responsibility?
So a month later (3 days ago at the time of writing this), I got a text from one of them saying their new bill came in and it was $220. They've been keeping at at 76 the past month I think, but they said that it doesn't cool below 80 during the day - though when they texted me that I took it to mean that they had it set to 80 (I told them that's what I've been doing). After being sworn and yelled at while doing the insulation a month earlier, I didn't finish putting it up. I didn't give them the blinds either. I see no reason to do favors for them if they're going to talk to me like that. But I'm so new to this, I don't know. Did I cross a line there? I saw it as more of me doing them a favor anyway, not stepping on some unalienable rights of theirs as my tenants. Regardless, we gave them the blinds after the $220 bill, and I gave them the option of installing the blinds themselves or having me install them and they chose to do it themselves.
So I get a text this afternoon saying, "It's 87 degrees. This should have been fixed by now." This is from the one that mouthed off to me. This is the first time since it broke that I heard about it going over 80 degrees. Guess what though? They hadn't even installed the blinds yet. So she's saying she doesn't see why she should have to pay this bill since I refused to pay to have the AC fixed. Call me crazy, but I'm getting the vibe she's pointing fingers at me and trying to make it seem like I'm negligent. But what she doesn't understand is that as far as I was concerned, it was fixed and they should just put up some blinds and maybe set it a little higher. But 87 degrees when you have it set to 76 is ridiculous. I'm not arguing that - it's just this is the first time I heard that there was such a big issue since it broke the first time and it seems to be approaching uninhabitable conditions.
I texted back saying I had somewhere to be soon but I'd be over to check it out in an hour at the latest. We texted back and forth while I was out just so I could get more details on the issue, and it got a little heated. She said she wasn't trying to be rude, and I said she was being very rude, just because of the stuff she started the conversation with. Soon, she told me not to worry about coming over, the blinds were up now and they'll see if that fixed it. And I'm totally confused at that point because I thought it was a broken AC issue. She said it wasn't cooling. If it's not cooling, I needed to actually call someone. I just wanted information so I could know what needed to be fixed.
Anyway, she seemed satisfied enough to not have me mess with it, and I didn't want to deal with her, so I didn't go over. The other tenant was texting me too, and I said I'd finish installing the insulation and we'd see how that affected things along with the blinds. If that doesn't work, I'll look into a window unit for them. I said that to her about the window unit. So I thought we were good at that point. But then I got another text like 15 minutes later saying the angry one's granddad would be in touch with me soon. And I'm like "what does that even mean"? He apparently does HVAC installation for a living, and he wanted to explain to me why insulation under the floor wouldn't work. I said I'd research it and call the guys from before if I needed help with the unit itself, and that I didn't want to start involving family members. So what happens next? Ten minutes later, the angry one's mom calls me. Really? Her mom called me and talked about how I should consider getting them some kind of window unit or some other non-central alternative and it was clear that her daughter and I aren't friends and she isn't the best at communicating and she's been so hot in that apartment all day and more excuses.
I'll be the first to admit I butted heads with this girl more than I should have. I feel like I'm renting to a couple of children playing house, and I'm embarrassed that I stooped to that level. I'm embarrassed that I cut them so many breaks. So if anyone can spare any advice for me, please help me out here. I really don't know what to do moving forward. I need input from unbiased parties. My plan is to install the insulation, most likely get a window unit (though I doubt that'll help their bill), wait to hear about their next bill, and figure out what to do from there.