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All Forum Posts by: Bret Ceren

Bret Ceren has started 1 posts and replied 6 times.

Quote from @Michael Baum:

Hey @Bret Ceren, I did a survey last year (I think) where I spoke with 10 lenders. Banks, Credit Unions, direct lenders, portfolio..pretty much the full mix of of lenders any of us would use.

They all said the same thing. A working STR is worth what other homes (just homes, not STRs) are worth in the area. IE-Comps. There is no additional valuation for the STR business.

In the end, past performance is not an indicator of future success.

It sounds like you have an "estimated" revenue and not actual revenue going back a few years? Just because Rabbu or AirDNA say that it will make X doesn't mean it will. There is so much that goes into a successful STR beyond the very basics.

Now, projections can help for people using a DSCR loan. I don't have a lot of info on what lenders do for that but I am betting a noob that wants to start a STR will have a more difficult time than someone like @John Underwood and @Collin Hays would have.


 Thank you!

Quote from @James Carlson:

Two thoughts:

-- To your direct question ... I tell my Colorado STR clients they want to see annual STR revenues that are at least 10% of the purchase price. And that's a starting point.

-- You're really asking about pricing a home ... and like John said, it's all about the comps. 

I see Colorado sellers try to get a premium for a turnkey vacation rental. It just doesn't really work. Shocking, I know, but people don't want to pay more than the sales comps say a property is worth.

Good luck with the sale.


Thank you. For CO specifically, are these year-round (Denver metro and Colorado Springs) or resort/seasonal for skiing (understanding Colorado mountain summers are still glorious). I know there will be seasonality for ours but just trying to gauge. I've had lots looking for the 10x cash on cash/10% cap rate in LTR but we haven't seen that in at least a decade in this market, but I have no basis for STR here. Thanks, again.

Quote from @Collin Hays:

If I was buying a property for a short-term rental, regardless of what it is currently used for, I would never pay more than 8X my annual projected rents.


Thank you, Collin. That GRM just wouldn't exist here in this market. LTR's are about 6% - 7% cash on cash (14x - 17x GRM), I just don't know what the STR investor appetite is. For this particular property, LTR GRM would likely be 21x - 23x; if Rabbu's average is correct, the GRM would be 16x - 18x for the target (approximately 6% cash on cash) so I'm trying to identify if that's in line with the area returns. I can analyze LTRs more easily due to the availability of the material information.

Quote from @Jaycee Greene:
Quote from @Bret Ceren:

Hi, BiggerPockets Community! Considering selling a home for short-term rental (STR). The HOA doesn't prevent it, so that's already cleared. There are a couple in the direct neighborhood I can find on various sites. Rabbu projects average annual revenue to be $47k. It is a great home and wonderful location, perfect for this investment model. Is there a general rule of thumb for translating that revenue into a sales price? I know what I would do for my market if it were a long-term rental in valuation, I don't know how investor buyers do it for STR. If there's a general/marginal rule of thumb that is used that I can do to start, that would be helpful. Thanks!

Hey @Bret Ceren, welcome to the BP Forum! I would recommend you talk to @McKenzie Stouffer - she knows a lot about STR strategy!


 Thank you!

Quote from @John Underwood:

This house is only worth what comparable sales say it is worth.

This is how it will be appraised. Potential or actual STR revenue has no bearing on what it's worth.

Hi, John. Yes, comparable sales is one method for appraisal. Income is another if I market it as an investment property, which is what I would be potentially going for with this particular property. An owner-occupant would be concerned on comps for other owner-occupied, but best and highest for this property may be as an investment, hence income. I'm just trying to understand typical STR appetites, understanding the overall ROI may be different in this particular market.

Hi, BiggerPockets Community! Considering selling a home for short-term rental (STR). The HOA doesn't prevent it, so that's already cleared. There are a couple in the direct neighborhood I can find on various sites. Rabbu projects average annual revenue to be $47k. It is a great home and wonderful location, perfect for this investment model. Is there a general rule of thumb for translating that revenue into a sales price? I know what I would do for my market if it were a long-term rental in valuation, I don't know how investor buyers do it for STR. If there's a general/marginal rule of thumb that is used that I can do to start, that would be helpful. Thanks!