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All Forum Posts by: Brendan M.

Brendan M. has started 14 posts and replied 125 times.

Post: First time investor- Purchase duplex or 4plex?

Brendan M.Posted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Colorado Springs, CO
  • Posts 125
  • Votes 86

@Jay P., I just went through this process myself not too long ago, you can read more in detail about my journey and results in my post here.

To answer your question, either only as good as the numbers. I analyzed every single 2-, 3-, and 4-plex in my area over the course of about 4 months before purchasing. Generally 4plexes will have more favorable numbers for the reasons mentioned above but it's very property specific. Also don't let list price dissuade you if you're searching the MLS. That means nothing. If something has been on the market for a while (90+ days) the seller would probably be pretty receptive to lower offers. If you don't get rejected on your first offer you probably didn't offer low enough.

Feel free to shoot me a message if you have any questions or want some help running through the analysis.

Post: Ramsey and Kiyosaki Are Wrong: Why You Should Finance Depreciating Liabilities

Brendan M.Posted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Colorado Springs, CO
  • Posts 125
  • Votes 86

@Steve Vaughan - I couldn't agree more. Honestly, I'm not the type of guy who buys a 40k car or a boat. I just devised this scenario to say if you're absolutely going to do it, choosing to purchase via cash or via financing is not as straightforward as it seems. Honestly, this post is 90% me playing devil's advocate. I live simplistically - I save around 70% of my take home income so I can reinvest it, and I don't do that by taking on 40k car or boat payments. Some day when I have enough to justify a large purchase like that maybe I'll take the dive. But for now it's simplicity for me.

@Jay Hinrichs - I apologize if I wasn't more clear, I'm not talking about purchasing 40k homes, I'm talking about purchasing 200k homes with a 40k down payment. Though even assuming the home doesn't appreciate but does cash flow, you still would end up ahead compared to an outright cash purhcase of a car.

Post: Ramsey and Kiyosaki Are Wrong: Why You Should Finance Depreciating Liabilities

Brendan M.Posted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Colorado Springs, CO
  • Posts 125
  • Votes 86

@Ryan Billingsley

 @Michael Herr

I gave away my copy of Rich Dad so I was working from memory regarding Kiyosaki, but I'll admit I may have misunderstood him there. The rest of his philosophy resonated with me pretty deeply so that makes sense that the part I found discordant probably just arose from me misunderstanding his intent. So more or less my original post was philosophically in line with Kiyosaki.

That said, I'll stand by my comment about Ramsey. Personal finance may be largely mental or psychological for many but for me I always try to let the numbers speak first.

Post: Ramsey and Kiyosaki Are Wrong: Why You Should Finance Depreciating Liabilities

Brendan M.Posted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Colorado Springs, CO
  • Posts 125
  • Votes 86

@Bill Gulley - You're right on the depreciating assets vs liabilities - I actually had it written up as depreciating assets and then confused myself on the lingo and changed it all right before posting because "depreciating asset" sounded pretty oxymoronic to me ;). And I agree that there are often intrinsic values built into these large purchases that don't appear very evident in paper analysis. But doing this type of analysis presumes you're looking to buy the same depreciating asset, financed or not, so those intrinsic values will be equal on both sides of your analysis.

Also regarding your ring example, that certainly would suck! But that's an example of how an asset has now depreciated so quickly that it would be even more prudent to have financed it and used that money instead for investment (though in your example, it might be hard to invest with just $2000.) The depreciation hit is going to happen whether it's financed or not, it's just a matter of whether you're going to use other people's money to keep your cash-on-hand liquid and ready to invest elsewhere.

@Frank B. - There are certain times, like with a car, where you might need to purchase a depreciating asset. I agree that when avoidable, you shouldn't purchase things that are going to lose you money in the long haul. But Dave Ramsey in particular makes it clear that if you're going to purchase a depreciating asset, you should purchase it with cash up front. Granted his target audience for this advice is largely those who have trouble managing their finances, but a lot of investors with strong financial management skills might be better off performing their own analysis to arrive at a decision to finance or not.

Post: Ramsey and Kiyosaki Are Wrong: Why You Should Finance Depreciating Liabilities

Brendan M.Posted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Colorado Springs, CO
  • Posts 125
  • Votes 86

@Johnny Mack - I'll agree 100% - I'm a used car guy through and through! But this applies just as well to used cars - or anything really. Even if your car appreciated, you could still run this analysis and find that the cash flow opportunity cost I wrote this up as a sort of mental exercise, to be aware that while buying things with cash might be simpler, it's not always so straightforward as to be the "best" route for making a large purchase.

@Account Closed - Did you end up immediately investing the money you saved up front by financing instead of paying cash?

Post: Ramsey and Kiyosaki Are Wrong: Why You Should Finance Depreciating Liabilities

Brendan M.Posted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Colorado Springs, CO
  • Posts 125
  • Votes 86

Most personal finance pundits will tell you that if a purchase does not produce income and depreciates, it's bad debt. They'll also tell you that you should avoid bad debt wherever possible, buying things like cars up front with cash. At first glance it sounds like great advice - by never going into debt, you completely rule out the possibility of ever being underwater. And to be honest, in most cases it is good advice, specifically for the financially inexperienced or those who have trouble managing debt. 

However, as an investor this logic seems to be at odds with the time value of money and the opportunity cost of your money. To better understand the total financial picture associated with purchasing a liability, let's build and analyze some scenarios to explore just what the difference is. Here are our assumptions for purchasing a car:

  • You want to buy a car that costs $40k
  • The car will depreciate at a rate of 15% per year
  • Homes in your area and rental rates each appreciate at 2% per year
  • You can get a 5-year car loan with no down payment for 3% APR
  • You can get a 30-year mortgage on a 200k property with 20% down payment for 5% APR
  • You can reasonably expect 10% cash-on-cash return from 20% down on a $200k property with the seller to carry closing costs

Financing vs. cash purchasing is not necessarily as straightforward of a calculation as you might think. As an investor, you should be aware that every purchase carries with it an opportunity cost - if you decide to purchase the car outright, that's $40k you don't have available to invest. Therefore, lets look at it as if each decision is a set of two investments (one for the car, and one for the property), each with independent cash flow and equity:

In Scenario 1, the car is bought for all cash, leaving no money left to invest in property. In Scenario 2, the car is totally financed, and the $40k is instead used as a down payment on a $200K property with a 7.2% cap rate. Over the course of 5 years, by choosing to purchase this car for cash instead of financing it, you're paying almost 80% more (31k in this example) for your vehicle in opportunity costs! Not to mention after the car loan is paid off, you now have a property that is cash flowing around $4.5k per year.

I'll admit that when I ran these numbers, I was pretty surprised at just how much money can be saved by being cognizant of the opportunity costs, even with conservative numbers for investment returns. However, it's important to note that the reason most personal finance gurus recommend paying cash is because this strategy involves significant levering. You're essentially going into debt on a car just to allow you to then go even further into debt on a property. 

So how do you know when it's a good idea to finance big purchases like a car and when to pay cash? If most or all of the following apply, you might want to seriously consider financing that next big depreciating purchase:

  1. You have a high tolerance for risk and are able to take on significant leverage. In the above scenario, the debt service for both the car and property in the second scenario was around $1800/mo. If you don't have a plan in place for how you're going to cover this in the event of prolonged vacancy or some disaster, you're setting yourself up for financial ruin.
  2. Your liability loan has a lower rates than your property loan. If you're able to score an auto/personal/HELOC loan for significantly less APR than a property loan, this might be a good way to take advantage of the difference. Don't think you can rationalize paying credit card APRs with this strategy and end up ahead.
  3. You can get significantly and consistently better returns from your investments than you will lose through depreciation. If you don't plan on investing with your saved up funds, have no saved up funds, haven't taken the dive on your first investment yet, or think you're going to work this by investing in mutual funds, you might want to reconsider.
  4. You actually need to buy a liability. The first question you should be asking yourself when you're thinking about buying a liability like a new car, boat, etc. is whether or not you actually need to buy it. At the end of the day it's still a liability that will lose you money over the long term, intelligently financing it is just a means to mitigate losses.
  5. You've actually run your numbers. Don't just assume that because you get good returns on your investments that this is always a good idea for you. Like every other investment, run your numbers for your opportunity costs so you can make an informed investment decision.

When it comes to making large purchases, it's important to consider the whole financial picture. We hear so much about good debt and bad debt from the financial gurus, but that's just a simplified picture. In reality there is no good debt or bad debt - there's only cash-on-hand, debt, and the opportunity costs and risks of trading between those two. Every purchase you make is an investment decision, whether you think of it that way or not. Taking the time out to consider your opportunity costs and risk tolerance for large purchases can save (or make) you a significant amount of money in the long run.

Agree? Think I'm crazy? Let's hear it!

Post: Converting an empty barn into a five unit apartment building.

Brendan M.Posted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Colorado Springs, CO
  • Posts 125
  • Votes 86

Awesome post! Really great way to invest creatively with sweat equity!

Post: Flexible Tenant Selection Criteria?

Brendan M.Posted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Colorado Springs, CO
  • Posts 125
  • Votes 86

Thanks a lot, @Linval T., that link is a great resource!

Post: Flexible Tenant Selection Criteria?

Brendan M.Posted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Colorado Springs, CO
  • Posts 125
  • Votes 86

Hm, I might have to try something like that. Though I've had a hard time convincing my current tenants to even pay online vs cash/money order so maybe my target market just isn't as internet savvy. 

Post: Flexible Tenant Selection Criteria?

Brendan M.Posted
  • New to Real Estate
  • Colorado Springs, CO
  • Posts 125
  • Votes 86

@Account Closed Wow thanks for the very thorough response! Do you provide this to every tenant with the application?