Skip to content
×
Pro Members Get
Full Access!
Get off the sidelines and take action in real estate investing with BiggerPockets Pro. Our comprehensive suite of tools and resources minimize mistakes, support informed decisions, and propel you to success.
Advanced networking features
Market and Deal Finder tools
Property analysis calculators
Landlord Command Center
ANNUAL Save 54%
$32.50 /mo
$390 billed annualy
MONTHLY
$69 /mo
billed monthly
7 day free trial. Cancel anytime
Pick markets, find deals, analyze and manage properties. Try BiggerPockets PRO.
x
All Forum Categories
All Forum Categories
Followed Discussions
Followed Categories
Followed People
Followed Locations
Market News & Data
General Info
Real Estate Strategies
Landlording & Rental Properties
Real Estate Professionals
Financial, Tax, & Legal
Real Estate Classifieds
Reviews & Feedback

All Forum Posts by: Billy Zhao

Billy Zhao has started 23 posts and replied 75 times.

Post: Buying Duplex in A Hot Market

Billy ZhaoPosted
  • Posts 79
  • Votes 134
Originally posted by @Darius Ogloza:

FWIW's: What you are observing in Austin about the rate of appreciation of SFR versus duplexes is dead right in Marin County CA. My theory is that millennial buyers are not inclined to want to landlord and, hence, the duplex market is weighted heavily toward investors who are too canny to overpay because of emotional response to a property.

Does this prove that you should skip duplexes and buy SFH only? Appreciation is a factor because of the compounding factor over years.

Post: Buying Duplex in A Hot Market

Billy ZhaoPosted
  • Posts 79
  • Votes 134

Here is another question for someone who has experience in both duplexes and single-family homes:

It appears that SFH appreciates much faster than duplexes and condos in Austin market.

Here is an example:

A 1978 built ranch house with 1,800 sq ft in Austin city limit purchased in 2006 for $224,000. In 2020, the home is probably valued at $550,000 with a decent update (new flooring, granite countertop, etc.) The current rent of this house is $2,550.

A 1994 built duplex with 2,200 sq ft in a similar area purchased in 2006 for $214,000, it appreciated to $415,000 today. The current for this duplex is $2,200.

Clearly the SFH did much better than the duplex in the long run. Did I miss something?

Post: Buying Duplex in A Hot Market

Billy ZhaoPosted
  • Posts 79
  • Votes 134

From the onsite, it doesn't appear to be a good deal. Please give me some of your thoughts:

Type: Duplex, fairly new, not a fix-upper (mostly updated, need minor updates that shouldn't cost more than $5,000)

Asking price $415k

Rent generation: $1300 x 2 = $2600/mo

Assuming borrowing 75% with 25% down at 3.5% for 30 years, the mortgage cost is about $1,400

Property Tax is roughly $6,500/year or $542/mo

8% vacancy, 8% management fee, 5% repair expenses

The calculator comes out to be -$150 cash flow. Not ideal.

When adjusting the offer price to $380k, the cash flow is about $150.

The problem is, in the market I am in, this property will likely be sold at asking price with in days and possible with multiple offers. The appreciation in this market has been insanely good, but I am primarily seeking cash flow first.

What would you do?

One area of improvement that can potentially increase rent is to reconfigure the kitchen to make it look more modern and inviting. The problem is that this duplex is sitting in a group of similar duplexes that I can only characterize as class C+. I doubt that people willing to pay higher rent really find this street inviting. 

In addition, putting 25% down (over $100k) will tie up a lot of cash. I don't see how I can refinancing and get my investment cash back out any time soon. Maybe in 4-5 years after some hefty appreciation. 

Originally posted by @Mary M.:

I would be curious to know the number of units owned by BP members who are not getting rent paid.  I know its a hot topic, and if you happen to be the unlucky LL who is not getting paid that sucks. 

But the data is saying most tenants are paying.   The thing about RE is things like this are baked into the price you pay and the rent you charge.  A and B class properties pay lower cap rates than C/D because C/D properties will have issues and you get a higher amount of rent relative to the price you paid precisely because of the risk.  So, in effect the C/D owners are already being compensated for risks.  

Anyway here is a link to data on folks paying rent (from the National Multi Fam Housing Council- you know, one of those orgs that folks could join if they wanted to support Pro landlord lobbying)

https://www.nmhc.org/research-...

Exactly, we need data to understand how those policies are fixing things as they intended (like reduced covid infections by 30%) or making things worse (like 10% of landlords couldn't pay their mortgage and end up in financial ruins). 

Originally posted by @Russell Thomas:

About half of the replies in this thread are amazed and confused by why the government would take such an action.

The moderator prohibits us from answering this question if we discuss nasty things, but I assume we are allowed to state some statistics and make historical and logical observations as long as we do not break the rules.

7.1% of the population report rental income on their tax return. 36.6% of the population rents. Every 4 years all of those people help select a person to lead our country for the next 4 years. As part of that process, the people who want to rule the country historically have made calculations about how their promises or other actions will make the highest number of people in the country happy and they make promises or base decisions on how to make the most people happy.

If you don't understand why a boss over a government agency would tell his or her underlings to make this kind of rule, the same month that people start selecting their ruler, and expire it the month after they select their ruler, you might think about how bosses whose jobs depend on making the most people happy calculate whether they can make more people happy by helping the larger group or the smaller group. 

Another way the say this is that this rule makes a lot of people happy at a very important time.

Please do not twist my words and talk about things we are not supposed to talk about here, or the moderator might remove my post if you associate it with off limits topics.

 Point well taken, though I must say (in a very apolitically vague fashion) the 7% property owners tend to select one particular kind of leader while 36.6% of renters have 70% never actually go make the selection. Just a guess. In the end, I think the 7% property owners will still like the same person who just screwed them while 36.6% didn't show any appreciation whatsoever. I think a sociologist from Germany (lived in London, kinda like Joseph Haydn) once called it class consciousness (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_consciousness).

Originally posted by @EJ K.:

Is it also wierd this policy is coming from a branch of government that questions covids existence..... 

You are a doctor right? So I assume you believe the damage COVID is real (or not?)

By the way, your profile picture, are you the one on the left or right? It's so confusing.

Post: The venerability of BRRRR method...

Billy ZhaoPosted
  • Posts 79
  • Votes 134

COVID made traditional financing and refinancing difficult - many banks now no longer do cashout refi for an investment property that are multi-family, many require much larger equity to be left in the property (25-30%)

Now with the eviction ban, it will make the method even harder, especially those new investors who only have class C/D properties and don't have a lot of equity nor cash flow to support their operation yet.

Your thoughts?

Originally posted by @JD Martin:

Reminder: NO POLITICS. You can discuss the pros and cons of the policy but do not discuss your love or hatred of Trump, his genius or incompetency, Biden, Republicans, Democrats or anyone else. 

Ok, but the subject matter is political in nature and have mostly political consequences. How on earth can you discuss that without discussing the purpose/intention/fallout/consequence/policy implication, etc.

It's like someone just banned you from eating meat, you like, let's not talk about veganism...

Then I see your point cause people just yell at each other for like 45 minutes and nothing good come out of the discussion. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koUCCLnB5ws

So, I will obey.

Here is the link: https://homevaluerealestatecen...

It's a pretty straightforward tool that lists a few comparable sales in the adjacent neighborhoods. Seems like a pretty good tool if you are doing research and don't want to ask an agent to run those cumbersome comp email reports... 

Your thoughts?

Post: Doom & Gloom vs. Buy Buy Buy...

Billy ZhaoPosted
  • Posts 79
  • Votes 134

OK, since it's a very popular topic here and both sides don't seem to agree on anything (like the world we are living in right now), I'd like to offer you what I saw (from an "almost" 3rd party perspective) and hopefully generating a rational discussion:

Question: Why we are seeing the equity market (stock) and the real estate market are going through the roof despite the current economic meltdown?

The simplest reason I see is not greed generated speculation like the pre-2008 housing boom and the pre-2000 dot com bubble. Rather it's a fear-induced reaction. The big difference between this round of the business cycle and previous ones is how aggressive the Feds intervened and how little push back the society reflected (hence the little interest in the congress to tame it down). The fear what I see is not a crash in the market, but a severe devaluation of the dollar (inflation). Large funds initially follow the same playbook to deal with recession by going conservative and hoarding cash. However, with the Feds (and the federal government) pumped trillions of dollars into the market, it essentially force corporations and financial institution to act rather than wait out. In other words, people are worried more about their money becoming garbage than they worried about the assets they own will lose value. 

Furthermore, the Feds and the government essentially signaled that they are going to continue to pump money into the market. This consistency has pushed all the world governments also pumping money into their market to keep the economy going. The extra amount of liquidity more than enough to compensate for the lost productivity and natural velocity of money transactions due to COVID.

Another point I see is that the economic devastation disproportionally affects a segment of society -  the service industry, hospitality industry, some retail, travel, commercial real estate, to name a few. But it didn't affect or even positively affect some other industries. I have some friends in certain sectors that seeing their volumes went to an all-time high due to orders of larger orders of assets/equipment. Online retail, not just Amazon, is having the greatest year. IT industry seems to be just fine. Some companies realized that they can have the same productivity without all the expenses of travel and office space, they actually become more lean and productive!

All these are showing a tale of two cities.

Are we in a speculative bubble like the Dutch Tulip story? Sure looks like it when I see listings getting multiple over-the-asking price bids on the same day when they hit the market. There is definitely fear that people are worried about inflationary risk and their wealth will shrink. In other words, holding on to cash is stupid. But there is also this opportunist view that they have no choice but to keep borrowing and acquire assets no matter how expensive they become because they will only become more expensive. 

The only way for the equity and other asset classes to lose value rapidly is either the stop of liquidity (bank stop landing, people stop buying, or massive default) or all of sudden the money supply shrank due to governmental action like raise interest rate rapidly, etc. I don't think the likelihood of that is very high at the moment. 

Warren Buffet said, "be afraid when others are greedy, be greedy when others are afraid". 

The reality, half the country is afraid, half are greedy. His sage advice just became an oxymoron. 

Your thought?