All Forum Posts by: Ben Visser

Needed some outside perspective. My partner (business and personal) has ended our relationship.He always said that since I did all the work on this business, it would always be 100% mine. I have always made the decisions on the properties and the management of them. He has affirmed that at the end of our relationship.Obviously emotions are a part of this for me and I need to separate them from the logic of moving forward.

We own 3 properties: my home, a duplex, and a 4 plex. After 2 yrs of a slow remodeling one unit at a time and then renting it, Sunday will be the last lease signed and all 4 of the units will finally be full.I need to make a decision. I stopped working to go to school for a we development certificate. While my former partner has said he will continue to support me (program ends in spring). Not sure I want that, but may have to use the help for now. I otherwise have no income aside the rentals (which I have never used as "income"), we have credit card debt on that needs to be addressed before considering anything profit.

I had started the process of doing a cash-out refi that was aimed to recover the remodel costs and pay off the cards. With no income, child support, etc, I can't qualify for anything for a mortgage. It will be years until I look good on paper personally. While he would do it, I don't want him to do a cash-out refi when he won't be in the picture.

All mortgages are in his name only.

Emotionally, it is hard to think of keeping the properties. Maintaining, property

management, etc will all take time and energy. And of course, there

will be memories. The market is also good, so selling should be fairly

quick. If my numbers are close, I could sell the rentals, pay off my primary/personal home

(which that mortgage gets covered by my basement renters already) and have enough left to service the credit card debts and more.While that scenario relieves me of the management stress and secures my personal home, I also want to look at the long-term effects of selling. Am I seeking immediate resolution to temporary issues? Am I missing what holding on would do for me?

The numbers today:

Personal home: mortgage $901, rent income $1100

4 plex: mortgage $1300 rents $2915

Duplex: mortgage $850 rents $1360 (8 yr tenant, rent way below market)

=$2951 in mortgages & rents of $5375

It would be a long time before I could refi everything in my name. There is always the worry of a market crash that would remove an escape hatch.

Holding onto them does give me cashflow in the future (about 1 yr) once the credit debts are paid off.Yes, there will be maintenance (new roof, tree removal, additional exterior/parking improvements). Wonder anyone's thoughts on the cost/benefit of selling or holding on?

I have a 4 plex in Ogden, Utah. The 2 buildings sir close to the street of on the property. This leaves me a huge back yard with a right-of-way to it.

I've thought of creating small back yard areas for each unit, but that still leaves a lot of unused land. I don't want the hassle, cost, and wasted resources needed to back it extra recreational space for tenants.

I'm considering whether or not I should level it, throw some gravel down and rent it to 2 or 4 people for rv storage.

Has anyone here done that? Any issues or things to watch for?

@William Hochstedler thank you. Yes, I don't see cash for keys working because it won't be simple for them to find a different place as cheap or willing to take someone with inconsistent income. With no escape clause in the lease we were just counting days (months) til we can get tenants that meet our typical qualifying requirements. But, since they aren't following the current lease, we'll take the opportunity to invite them to leave. @William Hochstedler I've talked to a few attorneys, but would love a referral to who you might suggest.

Looking for input on an eviction we are working through:

Coldes on 4-plex in mid-May. No sale/escape clause was in the existing leases so we figured we'd tread water for the 6 months until we could turnover and bring better tenants in. 

1 tenant has been late every month  on rent so far. Lease states:

"In the event that any payment required to be paid by Tenant hereunder is not paid within Five (5) days of when due, Tenant shall pay to Landlord, in addition to such payment or other charges due hereunder, a "late fee" in the amount of $50 and $15 a day for each additional day that rent is unpaid. If a notice or Summons for non-payment of rent or eviction process then Tenant shall a notice delivery charge of $50 for each delivery. ....."

Tenant was a day late (paid on the 6th) and did not pay the late fee. 

Meanwhile, tenant was given a letter giving 16 days for the tenant to clean up all the trash, debris, and 5 lawnmowers, etc that were in violation of the "clean and tidy" clause of the lease and, I suspect, city code. We also were not given keys at closing. This tenant stated he used combo locks on his doors (the bike kind) because he was always losing keys. We gave him 16 days to provide a key and working locks. A section of the lease requires the tenant to maintain the hardware.

16 days came and went with no clean up, no key, and no late fees paid. We had someone deliver a 3 day pay or vacate, a 3 day comply with key/hardware, and a 3 day clean up or vacate. Day 3 he deposits $100 in the rent account, yard is cleaner but not clean, and no key. So the $100 comes in 14 days after rent is due. Tenant states he doesn't owe $15 a day, because the monthly rent amount was paid in full 1 day late and that stops late fees from accumulating. From my read of the lease he owes us $50, plus $15 a day from 7/7-7/19 when it is paid. Also, he owes $50 for the 3 day notice delivery.

From what I gather, he is still in "unlawful detainer" because he owes remaining fees, the property wasn't clean at the end of 3 days, and still no key. 

I plan to file the eviction case early next week. In your experience, where do you think I stand on the fees and case in general?

**I offered to come up with a move-out plan and allow him more time to get out (rent still being paid, etc) but his response was "see you in court." Long term he can't afford this place. He has no full time job etc. I thought my offer was on the generous side.

Thank you William. The previous landlord, simply wasn't one. He barely collected rent it seems and then often didn't. These tenants paid whenever or never. Based on what I've seen from the renters we are evicting, they aren't going to want to be anywhere near a court. I'll be surprised if they do answer the summons. It is always possible. My thought is to let this play out with the summons and not contact them. We'll know Tuesday if they responded.

I'm playing the roll of property manager for a 4plex property my partner just closed on 2 weeks ago. At the time of closing 1 tenant had not paid rent and I understand this was chronic. This was also bought owner occupied, so this unit was the planned unit to occupy. I've done the 3 day notice, they didn't respond. We filed and had the summons served yesterday. Magically they are calling saying they can pay rent this weekend. -I highly doubt they have rent, plus late fees, plus costs to cover filing -We planned to issue a 30 day if they had paid with the 3 day -I also doubt that even if they paid for May, that they would have June's payment by the 1st. -they have til end of day Friday to file their answer. -I have only received vmails since yesterday with promises to pay. I have not called back. We need them out anyway. We really don't care about getting the money as much as getting them out. I know they aren't financially solvent so I'd rather them use the money to move. The question: Should I not respond and let the court do its thing? Am I obligated to receive payment after filing with the court? I am concerned about calling them back and letting them know we want them out regardless as this could lead to property damage. How would you handle this?

@Ola Dantis I'm curious what you mean by still negative after moving out? The numbers I listed shoe positive $249 monthly after pm, Capex, vacancy, maintenance. Did I miss something in my numbers? What do you see when you run the numbers?

@William Hochstedler thank you for the added input. We do have a duplex a few blocks northwest. The 4 plex is filled, but currently rents are too low. The one that will be occupied is the tenant that isn't paying on time and isn't keeping the unit clean, so that was an easy choice. Owner bought a bunch when the market was low and is now just unloading them. He's done some work on the property but seems he bought mostly expecting the market to rebound after the crash (paying off now). I do expect we may lose every tenant over the next year, but that will pay off long term, I believe. We'll have to put a plan in place to get in and do the cosmetics to re rent quickly. It isn't the best part of Ogden, but wandering around the area, I see signs of improvement. What do you think of the numbers?

@Victor S. Ogden is a "good landlord" city and I'm not sure some of the occupants will be able to stay. Either way, I do expect some turnover right up front, but right now the housing market is really tight so re-renting shouldn't put any vacant long. It is one thing to watch though.

*first year owner occupied