All Forum Posts by: Arno Karssen

 This review right here should be final and that should be reflected on everybody associated with KNF.   As wholesalers and realtors we all know the power of online marketing correct? Also, you have all heard of the phrase “call to action” correct?

Bottom line if something looks to good to be true, it probably most likely is. KNF DBA Wealth 212 is not a scam however, that doesn't say that their marketing gimmick is misleading. Let's describe real life Operations. First, they fund you under their credit which they transfer in your name to buy property, so providing money is what they do. However, those who have no idea what they are doing cannot see their operation which they legally disclose in front of you but is clouded by their online marketing hype.

What they don’t tell you up front, or in their marketing video, (only in the fine print) is that they can pull from a transaction anytime they want and the fundee agrees to be liable for all the expenses accrued.  That’s right, you have to pay for all expenses incurred at that moment including the money they used to fund the deal.  

Their fine VERY Fine print states this but is clouded by very good marketing videos, stacks of money photos, testimonials with first names and their states a etc.  ALWAYS LOOK PAST THAT AND READ THE FINE PRINT.  REMEMBER THEY SAID CREDIT DONT MEAN A THING?! Well it doesn’t TO JOIN THEM! But within their online application they do ask you your credit score 🤔 Haha! Because they want to ensure you can pay the debt.  

They offer you online tools to see out sellers etc and conduct the deal which more than 89% of the time(regardless if its a great deal) they will deny it!  

They want it to be a troubled fix and flip because it A) gets you in the deal B) they transfer their CREDIT under you to “fund” the RE expenses

Then they drag their feet at the last minute as to why they cannot close! THIS IS BS!! Right? You have all these expenses you owe now on a 26.5% APR credit line. Can they back out that early or late though!? Like 2hr before closing? And then hold me with the cost? Yes they can and legally can take your investment of the initial $5,000 and ignore you.. The reason why they cannot get sued it umm you guest it! You signed the contract (that you didn't read thoroughly stating you would accrue the costs regardless and that they can back out whenever).

They did that to me but, little do they know, I was on to them the whole time.  I actually have was closing myself on properties they were rejecting and made a lot of $- They backed out on another deal which I quickly paid off the balance and cancelled (they were stunned) I then rescinded the contract between them and told them this operation will Only work guys on newbies.  Never heard from them again but was able to hack and duplicate their bot system.  

Anyway, I digress.  I ended up paying off 6k of CC debt they left me with on the 25k commission I recently made on my own fix and flip.  

They are not a scam they tell you what they do in FINE Print.  They purposely have successful deals once in awhile for marketing however they could not possibly do this.  They are not disrupting a billion dollar business at all! They are taking peoples money of $5,000 and leaving them with high hopes and debt.  

Be careful new investors. Better to do it yourself or find a funding partner you can give you liquid cash.  You have to work hard for your first deal and risk a few things.  Nothing is never as easy as they claim.  

My rating is a D+ 

The reason for my grade and why it’s not a F below

Why it’s not a full blown F- Because they lawfully disclose this to everyone in light fine print

Why a D+- Because they have allowed a few success stories to slip through (probably people working directly for them).  They mislead their potential clients by masking the fine print with fancy marketing with awesome photos of money stacks,videos etc.  

Tip:  when something feels too good to be true look into it. Additionally, always know that there is of yet a trustworthy solid company that does this and if they were they would be very selective. Selective in a way where they know your income is stabilized and that your business is thriving.   Laid do however a statement that stated that they are very selective so I asked this question. “If you are so selective then why is everyone and anyone can sign up and get a call and quickly get funding?”

Red flag- there business model seems straight forward.  Why do they need to set up a call that is 90 minutes long to explain their operation.  If it were a solid company, all They would need to say this 

- find us a property.  The finder has no credit cards or no monies in his name

-You find a property they approve and you sign a JV Agreement with them

- They then transfer you their shares of LLC they can quickly create with escrow 100-% funded in cash money

- You show up to the closing and sign the the papers saying you are a partner in XYZ LLC

- The Deal is executed 

- You use what’s left of the cash to pay for repairs, appraisals and closing costs (as long as it doesn’t exceed a certain amount especially a good % less than the Purchase Price)

- You find a cash buyer and close 

-Money from buyer fills the escrow under the transferable LLC stating you as a representative

- You transfer the LLC back to them

- They divi the money in the full escrow which gives you 25-50% for your running around (under the JV Agreement y'all signed in the beginning). They pay closing, and realtor fees THE remaining MONEY FROM SELL AND WHATS LEFT FROM THE REPAIR BANK IS GIVEN BACK TO THEM

-YOU CASH YOUR CHECK of the 25-50% of the sale price WAHOOO 💥 

Originally posted by @Arno Karssen:

Hey everyone, time for another update. 

I understand skepticism. But some of you are so far off base in spite of attempts to clarify, that I think some comments might help.

First, we have three requirements. Not a whole list as someone mentioned. This does exclude 80% of flippable properties, but then either way you probably shouldn't be touching that 80% anyways. Simple risk management. The "requirements" we have are fairly universal. Minimum profit requirement ($50k), rehab cannot exceed purchase price and under $600k ARV (we don't touch luxury homes because of DOM. Same for historical homes for that matter). That's it. THREE qualifiers. Are they easy to find? No of course not, that's where field partners come into play. We wouldn't need to share profits if they were easy to find.

Second, someone said we don't give property examples. Odd, as our facebook page has a few dozen.

Third, if you don't want to do a membership based version of creative funding, you have plenty of alternatives. You can set up your own creative version of a partnership, and depending on what you bring to the table (time, experience, funding) you can probably find a matching partner. If you have little to no cash, if you lack experience, if you have bad credit, well then that partnership is going to be a struggle. That's why we are an alternative our members are excited to be partnered with. You can of course also do traditional funding (banks): 20% down, qualifying credit and take 100% of the risk and manage the rehab yourself. Or hard money lending, which has similar cash up front requirements and also is all about the money (they don't help with the deal, it's all about cash). 

Fourth, someone asked to talk to someone who is actually flipping with us. I believe a few people in the forum are our members and have tried to comment. Not sure how many would be enough? They tried to help without broadcasting their personal information and getting heaven know who contacting them to prove something they are part of but don't promote for a living, like our office staff. 

Fifth (i was only thinking it was going to be three but here we are) some of you are referring to rejection numbers. Where are you getting those from? We don't have a single member in all these years who got anywhere close to 20 deals rejected. I don't even think we have a member who had half that. We work hard to help people understand what they are looking for. Besides, if rejection is a turnoff then don't try getting funding from a bank or hard money lender, and I frankly think you shouldn't go into Real Estate. 

Finally, it if you are advertising your own company you probably shouldn't be giving negative reviews, especially if you never even talked to us. From your comments it seems you didn't even look at our website or social media and our contact records show we never talked to you. 

If you have any questions, feel free to contact us directly. Get first hand information:) 

 I haven't followed this thread in its entirety, just responding to this comment.

Isnt it a bit arbitrary to set a 600k limit for what you consider luxury and having a potential dom problem?

In my area 600 to 750 is the sweet spot for single family homes.

In other areas its super luxury 5 times higher than a typical sfh.

Well of course it's arbitrary. Just like every other lender in the country, we can set our own parameters of what we fund and don't fund. We attach somewhat of an explanation with it (luxury and historic homes) but bottom line it's totally arbitrary. This also explains why we don't accept members in many areas in the country: there simply aren't any (enough) qualifying properties in their area (or we have enough members to cover that area). We are a closed group, not open for anyone wanting to join...

Some math is pretty universal though - Let's take a home in your "sweet spot" range - ARV of 700k. So for flipping let's say you can get something around $450k, that would leave a nice profit margin, right? So we are extending $450k plus rehab and other costs for 4-6 months - assuming DOM is close to 0, which it isn't anywhere... Rehabs on homes like that are often easily over 100k, if not over 200k (the lower your PP the higher your rehab if you want to match ARV in a specific area). There are numerous calculators online that will tell you what kind of profit margin you would need to make something like that work. Some will indicate risk margins - even though flips like the ones in your area aren't impossible, on your proposition the risk factor would be through the roof.

Take the same $500-$600k in other areas of the country and you can buy 5-8 decent homes with each having the same profit margins EACH... That's our logic behind that "arbitrary" $600k. Besides, most of our members aren't experts so if we instructed them by saying "well it depends" all we would end up with is frustration. Bottom line, as I said, if we call someone to ask if they are interested in becoming a member, we take them through an extensive intake process to make sure they are in an area where flipping is more likely to result in success. I would say that we, like anyone in our industry, aren't interested in every property out there. We try to make it as specific as we can, so our members know what they are looking for. 

@Arno Karssen I spoke with a Stacie Mansell from KFN last week (6-25-18). She told me that I only needed $1,500 to get started. $500 for Earnest Money (that I would get back after the property sold) & $1,000 for the 1st monthly Membership Fee. But if I'm not mistaken (bc she was talking pretty fast) after that was paid it would be something like $2,500 a month for membership fees. Also, I was told that I would NOT be making any profit from the 1st deal, a very small profit from the 2nd deal and then the 3rd deal I would be actually finally splitting the profit in half with KFN. Which tbh, as long as someone helps me by giving me a chance to fulfill my dreams of starting my own REI Business I'm perfectly fine not making a profit on the first property and little for the 2nd. From my understanding it's KFN's way of gaining a working trust with me, so I totally get that. My ONLY concern atm is .... If I won't be making any profit from the 1st deal and very little profit from the 2nd deal, how am I ever going to be able to afford a monthly charge of $2,500? I mean after I start making profits I am more then happy to pay that monthly fee. But to start charging these incredibly high monthly fees if no money has been made on my end makes it almost impossible to keep up with those charges. I mean did I misunderstand Stacie when she was explaining it all to me?

We are a group of investors with deep pockets and a saturated local market (Utah is after all the capital of Real Estate coaching). We pick “Golden Markets” and Call our databases to find one or two solid Field Partners. “We” being the partners behind the KFN brand (it’s a brand, not a company. Wealth 212 and a few other companies that the partners own are behind the brand and supply staff).
There are lots of funding sources out there. We sure aren’t the solution to everyone’s needs, and we aren’t good partners for everyone. As a matter of fact, I ask my teams to make sure we find people we can have great time with. Life is too short to end up with parters you can’t stand lol. So, sorry we weren’t a match Michael. You live in a golden area with profits close to 100k! (At least based on what we have done in central Indiana, close to $50k checks per property for our field partners!). I am sure you can find plenty of funding partners willing to partner with you. Good luck in 2018!

Originally posted by @Michael Whitaker:

I had an appointment with them.  I went to do my do diligence with them and all I found was great reports of how much money and how awesome they were.

I asked them for a few examples of houses they had done since they had done thousands.  They said they could not do that.  I asked them to send me a copy of the contract and they said they don't do business that way.  I said if you are going to get my money to learn there new system I would like to know their parameters.  They suggested I go get a w2 job. 

(Wow Charles, holy run-on sentence!!! Your comment is hard to decipher).
Proof of funds letters are available for members anytime. Not sure what you mean with “after you submit”. Don’t forget the VOD! POF is easy, you can get those free on the internet, it’s the VOD you want! Again, any time acccess for our members. We are not private investors, it’s not third party money so you are tying down $3k where you didn’t have to if you weren’t confusing us with another program. We don’t put a group of private investors together. Again, wrong program, but 60% isn’t a number I have ever heard. 
I am sure your review would be useful for whatever program you are commenting on, it’s not us. 


Originally posted by @Charles Snydet:

everybody get a pen and paper I got the information on Keystone funding Network it's a division of funding for flipping which is an internet program where they try to get you involved in getting their program using their computer software and all that kind of stuff Josh Allen will contact you after you get a 15 day free trial let me back up you can sign up and get a 15 day free trial everyday they will send you one or two or three or four emails and they all involve a video of some type just about as it tutorial supposedly I think really it's a smoke screen because you go into the website so far everything I pulled up is in the MLS just about and I tried to get to the funding sources they said they have hundreds of them and I signed up as a member for the 345 or $395 a month cuz I'm going to cancel in about 3 or 4 days anyway to see if they actually have lenders out there so far I can't get to it and I've met all their guidelines so what they do is Jerry Norton Jerry Norton it's called jln Group LLC 5406 West 11000 North Suite 444 Highland Utah 84003 I got several emails asking how I like the program so far I haven't been able to get into the program so far 90% of the time and as far as sources for funding they say they have sources for funding and it's free as I want me to respond to one of their emails where they will do a telephone interview so that I can be allowed access to hundreds of thousands of dollars and private investor money and what they do is an invedtor walk you through what you need to do like a mentor so to speak. after you find the deal you submit the deal and then what they do is they will give you a proof of funds letter so the person will take you legitimately I've never had to do that I just Pony up about $3,000 cash and put it in escrow so they know you're serious proof of funds letter doesn't mean squat most of the time especially from a private investor if it comes from a bank that's a different story so what they do is they want to walk you through the process supposedly they put a group of investors together and they fund 100% of your deal they will hook you up with the contractors who were going to do whatever improvements are and after everything is said and done basically you get a percentage of the net profit and they get the balamay get about 60% of the net profit. that may be good that may be bad I don't know they also say that they'll help you or assist you infinding the buyer I should say it sounds like a lot of work for private investor I don't really know that many private investors that get that invinvolved. My deals are min 20/25 % of the total sales price after repairs.