Originally posted by @Joe P.:
Originally posted by @Anthony Jasmine:
@Rich Lennon
I tend to avoid political discussions when trying to network, but what the government is doing is wrong. They tell tenants that they don’t have to pay, and give landlords no bailout. It’s terrible that families can’t afford their rent and basic necessities, but it’s not right for them to destroy everything you’ve worked for.
You created assets and established wealth. They didn’t. You did what most people aren’t willing to do. You’re financially intelligent, and they weren’t. You don’t owe it them by obligation to drain all of your assets to help them out.
People might tell me I’m selfish, but my argument stems on free will. I have a whole sub savings account titled “Giving” with capital one. My fiancé and I both fund this account $400 together every month. This is to help friends and family out. Maybe it’s a meal we pay for, a birthday, a holiday... but if someone comes in and takes that money from my account forcefully and allocate it the way they personally see fit- well that’s when I have an issue.
If the government is bailing out tenants, then she should bail out land lords. Your assets shouldn’t be destroyed because somebody wasn’t as financially sound as you. You don’t owe it to them. If you want to help, then it should be free will.
I empathize and hope everything works out for you.
Hi Anthony...first, you say what the government is doing is "wrong" -- what's wrong about it? The government has a requirement to keep the masses safe. What will keep the masses safe? Making sure thousands of people do not become instantly homeless, and the associated socioeconomic fallout of such. Mind you, its only temporary. The government knows that real estate investors are a piece of the puzzle, just like everyone else. That's why they've established an EIDL loan, and there are also SBA loans available for those that qualify. If your tenants cannot pay rent because of the coronavirus, and you want to evict, and there were no restrictions/courts were running -- what do you think would happen in court? Even the most landlord-friendly judge is likely to invoke extenuating circumstances given the pandemic, and at the very least, require a plan in place to make you whole while not significantly hindering someone that lost their income source and putting them out on the street.
Some tenants will take advantage of this, as is human nature. But it's no different than landlords trying to do the same. That's the same story from both sides, day-after-day. Human nature applies to us all, and some humans deal with nature differently.
"You created assets and established wealth" -- ok, perhaps. But chances are your wealth was established with government backed loans that you appreciated at the time, and when the government tries to back another citizen (that may directly or indirectly affect you), all of the sudden, its overreach, its subsidizing, it's infringing upon your so-called rights, et al...well that's just a bunch of nonsense. Some folks may not be as "financially savvy" as investors, but is that a reason to PENALIZE them in a situation that is completely beyond their control? Do they not pay their taxes just like you and I, sometimes to a higher percentage BECAUSE they are not financially savvy?
No one asked you or required you to drain your assets. A lot of folks, thanks to technology, have been able to keep their jobs and work remotely, or are essential and need to work and are being paid as such. And in cases where you have good tenants who fell on unexpected and really, unprecedented being the key word, hard times...I hope you're working with them.
The ONLY thing gub'ment has done is say we're going to put a moratorium on evictions. Landlords -- here's your recourse, either/or EIDL or SBA loans (a lot of them are just grants...free f'n money...you can use since you're so "financially savvy" as to overlook them). It's really amazing how all these brilliant people at the first sign of trouble have wallowed in their tears on situations that haven't even come up yet AND, if they did, have recourse (thanks to the same government trying to watch all citizens) to mitigate the financial constraints we are all under.
So, Anthony, check your facts. Yes, the government is telling people they can't be put out on their arse in a really difficult time. But they're also offering you, the investor, multiple avenues to mitigate the costs of such. And that's not even scratching the surface of how you can interact with your lenders to find out the deferral plans which no doubt exist, while you draw upon your reserves (financially savvy, remember?) to cover yourself in this financially and socially difficult time.
For a country that spends a lot of time telling people to "pick themselves up by the bootstraps" -- it seems like a lot of folks I considered to be "financially savvy" are now suffocating themselves with the same ones. Business is RISK. Maybe we don't anticipate this kind of risk, but we're ALL HERE. Figure it out, do you research (literally took me 10 seconds to google "landlord loans for coronavirus") and find out about how in the CARES act, the same government you think is overreaching took the time to consider your needs an investor, but you're too busy on some straw pedestal to even bother to LOOK. Unreal.
I'm now sitting at a desktop, so I'm going to give a more in depth response. Listen, I started researching this asset class maybe a couple of months ago. Up until then, I've been trading stocks and have made pretty decent money doing it. My expertise do not align within this business, and I'm here to simply learn. Having said that, I do not personally render my opinion null because of my inexperience. What I've read and heard from other users is contradicting to what you're stating. Common sense tells me that if this post is this active, and the original poster hasn't figured it out, then there still must be an issue at hand here. If it were that easy, then there wouldn't be an issue, hence this wouldn't even be a discussion.
Upon reading as you've suggested (SBA Loans), it seems as if you must match a particular criteria as you do with any loan. My first thought that comes to mind is a landlords credit being tarnished due to missed-payments of his tenants. Now the landlords credit is shot, and his cash flow is far from what would be considered consistent. Even with this loan, how long will this take you to repay it considering that tenants have so much leniency right now? I also read that these SBA loans are limited and awarded on a first come first serve basis. Now if I'm wrong, feel free to correct me. I actually encourage this as I genuinely want to learn more.
I'm now going to directly respond to some of the things you've stated.
"Hi Anthony...first, you say what the government is doing is "wrong" -- what's wrong about it?" - The government tarnishing a business owners ability to survive and produce cash flow so that they can forcefully give others free rent is wrong. Landlords planned for a rainy day, but they didn't plan for the federal government to come in and tell them that their business is now a charity whether they like it or not. While tenants didn't plan for this either, capitalism operates in a way that rewards the strong, and unfortunately.... the weak fall out. While it's a harsh world out there, this is why I'm so proud to be an American. We create our own faith and placement in life. If I want to live rich and lavish with my future wife, then I absolutely can if I work hard and smart. If I don't, well I'll have to suffer the consequences of that. I don't condone my belief system towards this Marxist driven agenda that punishes the wealthy and rewards the underachievers. Equality and equal opportunity should be handed to every American. Not solely the rich, poor, or middle class. The Marxist robin-hood theory of taking from the rich, and giving to the poor isn't my cup of tea.
It seems as if the government is interfering with the natural order of things, and as a result, our market (according to my GDP calculations), is about 140% inflated and overvalued. The government stimulus is literally destroying our economy, and there will be negative ramifications to it. There is a reason as to why Warren Buffet is sitting on a cash pile of over $100 billion right now. Logic, and numbers tell us that what the government is doing clearly isn't working very well.
I think that there's an issue when the federal reserve is printing trillions of dollars, and handing it out like candy. I think there's an issue when the government took millions to pay for lobbyist in an attempt to advance the careers of political leaders during this pandemic. I think there's an issue when we take 25 million dollars to fund the Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts during this pandemic. I think there's an issue when the government is handing over millions to the media. I think there's an issue when the government can no longer pay out pensions. I think there's a problem when my fathers retirement is now going to be shot due to hyper-inflation tagged along with millions of other Americans. Imagine working your entire life, looking forward to a retirement, and then being told at the age of 60 that you no longer get it. Finally, I think there's a huge issue at hand when you have people like the original poster having their life work deteriorate in front of them due to other people's inability to be financially prepared. The government now has to sit there and say "Nope, you now give free rent. Apply for this loan that you might get, and figure it out on your own. You don't see anything wrong with that? Isn't that socialism?
Don't you think that the government could have possibly maybe just interfered a little less, and maybe things might be a little better? Maybe we as Americans should allow the people to govern themselves a little as our founding fathers fought for that right? Maybe they could have taken that money and given money for tenants to pay their rent? No, the government actually says that as a landlord, you can't even suggest they pay for their rent using their stimulus check? Do you really think that these people aren't milking the system? Cmon man. Use your head.
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"A lot of folks, thanks to technology, have been able to keep their jobs and work remotely, or are essential and need to work and are being paid as such." - Tell that to the landlords in the mid west who's asset is almost solely dependent off of cash flow where the market is predominately based on labor.
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"Business is RISK." - Absolutely it is a risk. Having said that, landlords started their business with the assumption that the government wouldn't indoctrinate socialist driven policies. They started this off the assumption that we are a free country, and the government wouldn't tell them that their business is now a non-profit homeless shelter for the time being. You now have to go down because of everyone else's financial ineptitude. They couldn't figure it out, so now you must drown with them. Screw your family, screw the sacrifice you made, screw everything. You owe it to them because big government now says so. No, I completely disagree. Business is business, and at the end of the day, everyone needs to make money. If I had rental properties, I'd help as much as I possibly could. I genuinely mean that. If you can help others in this situation, but choose not to, you're selfish in my opinion. But again, I'm not lighting me and family on fire to keep others warm. What's next, do all food vendors start giving every American free food by force? At what point does your consistency stray in another direction?
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"Some folks may not be as "financially savvy" as investors, but is that a reason to PENALIZE them in a situation that is completely beyond their control?" - They are penalized by society for not making financially intelligent decisions even despite this pandemic. That's how capitalism should work. It sounds harsh, but that's simply how it works.
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With all due respect, I'm going to suggest that you look at these issues with a broader mindset past the fixated minutiae instead of starting debates so emotionally charged with contempt for anyone else who opposes your belief system. In all, I'm not here to attack you. We're all going through a lot. My 33 year old cousin just lost his life 3 weeks ago, and we think it's because of covid. Everyone's struggling, and it's okay that we oppose views on the correct course of action. We all have different route in which we believe will work, but our end goal is the all the same. We all just want for this to end, and for everyone to be okay. For anyone who actually read all of this, stay safe out there. This will pass soon enough.
