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All Forum Posts by: Annie Anson

Annie Anson has started 1 posts and replied 5 times.

Quote from @Jake Baker:

@Annie Anson

Working with a Property Manager:  If you hire a property manager for on-the-ground tasks like maintenance, you can still meet material participation—if you handle the majority of the work that drives the property’s success (e.g., guest services, pricing strategy, advertising). The key is ensuring you work more hours than anyone else on the property, including your property manager.

Keep a detailed log of your hours spent on the property—managing listings, coordinating cleanings, marketing, and even initial decorating/setup all count.

Some CPAs are conservative and hesitant to qualify STRs as active, particularly when property managers are involved.


 Thank you. This makes the most sense to me given all the details I’ve researched. I appreciate your insight and opinion. 

Quote from @Sean O'Keefe:
Quote from @Annie Anson:
Quote from @Sean O'Keefe:
Quote from @Annie Anson:

My husband and I are ready to invest in our first vacation property, likely in Florida. We hope to eventually have multiple properties, but want to take our time to learn and make the right decisions with our first rental. I should add it will be a short term rental property. 

What adds complexity to our plan, is that we live in Minnesota. We would like for the investment to be treated as active, of course. However, we will likely need a property manager to assist with some facets of running this rental (since we would not live locally) and would primarily market it through platforms such as Airbnb and VRBO to start, (eventually setting up a direct booking process).

Here's our question for those who have experience in STR's or who might be involved in a similar scenario: How challenging is it to meet the material participation hours needed to achieve active status? My husband is a high income W2 earner, and meeting active criteria would put some of our tax dollars back in our pocket. Is it possible to have a property manager who manages some of the property, while I manage the rest remotely? For instance, said property manager manages maintenance issues, problems that arise during bookings, basically anything that needs a physical person at the property, while I manage the rest? (i.e. initial decorating and painting, bookings, rate structures, marketing, bookkeeping housekeeping, etc)?


According to what I have read straight from the IRS website and other places, we need to either meet 500 hours, or at least 100 hours and also work more than anyone else on the property. I feel I could definitely meet both of those on my own, as my husband works full-time , and I will be the only person besides the hourly employees stated above that would be accruing hours. However, the one CPA I briefly talked to said the investment would be treated as passive. No real explanation as to why or whether there were exceptions to that. 


We are newbies, and don't want to miss out on a great investment and tax savings opportunity, but obviously want to do everything correctly in the eyes of Uncle Sam. Thank you so much in advance for your help.

If you have a property manager and live 100s of miles away, it’s unlikely that you meet the material participation requirements to qualify for tax benefits you mentioned. 
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*This post does not create a CPA-client relationship. The information contained in this post is not to be relied upon. Readers are advised to seek professional advice.


 Hi Sean, 

With all due respect, unlikely meeting the requirements is not very useful information. This leaves a lot of room for interpretation and that is exactly the issue we are having at the moment. So far it sounds like we will just need to verify via a CPA, which is fine, if that is what we need to do.  I was hoping some folks might be in a similar situation or had a similar experience and might be able to share. I do appreciate you taking the time to respond regardless.

The IRS specifically calls out owner distance from rental and having a property manager as a red flag that owner isn't materially participating. Based on what you said you meet this criteria.

Everyone's situation is different. You may still qualify. Since leveraging this tax strategy could save you significantly on taxes if you do qualify you might want to seek personalized advice, that's tough to get in a public forumto avoid missing out or getting audited and failing audit. 
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*This post does not create a CPA-client relationship. The information contained in this post is not to be relied upon. Readers are advised to seek professional advice
Thank you Sean. This is actually quite helpful insight in understanding the reasoning. Much appreciated. 
Quote from @Sean O'Keefe:
Quote from @Annie Anson:

My husband and I are ready to invest in our first vacation property, likely in Florida. We hope to eventually have multiple properties, but want to take our time to learn and make the right decisions with our first rental. I should add it will be a short term rental property. 

What adds complexity to our plan, is that we live in Minnesota. We would like for the investment to be treated as active, of course. However, we will likely need a property manager to assist with some facets of running this rental (since we would not live locally) and would primarily market it through platforms such as Airbnb and VRBO to start, (eventually setting up a direct booking process).

Here's our question for those who have experience in STR's or who might be involved in a similar scenario: How challenging is it to meet the material participation hours needed to achieve active status? My husband is a high income W2 earner, and meeting active criteria would put some of our tax dollars back in our pocket. Is it possible to have a property manager who manages some of the property, while I manage the rest remotely? For instance, said property manager manages maintenance issues, problems that arise during bookings, basically anything that needs a physical person at the property, while I manage the rest? (i.e. initial decorating and painting, bookings, rate structures, marketing, bookkeeping housekeeping, etc)?


According to what I have read straight from the IRS website and other places, we need to either meet 500 hours, or at least 100 hours and also work more than anyone else on the property. I feel I could definitely meet both of those on my own, as my husband works full-time , and I will be the only person besides the hourly employees stated above that would be accruing hours. However, the one CPA I briefly talked to said the investment would be treated as passive. No real explanation as to why or whether there were exceptions to that. 


We are newbies, and don't want to miss out on a great investment and tax savings opportunity, but obviously want to do everything correctly in the eyes of Uncle Sam. Thank you so much in advance for your help.

If you have a property manager and live 100s of miles away, it’s unlikely that you meet the material participation requirements to qualify for tax benefits you mentioned. 
.
.
.

*This post does not create a CPA-client relationship. The information contained in this post is not to be relied upon. Readers are advised to seek professional advice.


 Hi Sean, 

With all due respect, unlikely meeting the requirements is not very useful information. This leaves a lot of room for interpretation and that is exactly the issue we are having at the moment. So far it sounds like we will just need to verify via a CPA, which is fine, if that is what we need to do.  I was hoping some folks might be in a similar situation or had a similar experience and might be able to share. I do appreciate you taking the time to respond regardless.

Quote from @Nick Velez:

@Annie Anson

Welcome and congrats on taking the first step! Not many people dig too deep on the actual requirements so kudos to you. You definitely want to talk to a different investor friendly CPA that helps their clients with cost seg's, and can articulate exactly what you will need to do to meet the requirements. 

I also highly suggest you connect with @Josh Green as well whom not only owns STR's locally, but has a management business. Tax savings are amazing and I have utilized cost segs myself, but you also have an opportunity to make an amazing return on your money in the Tampa Bay market. There is a formula that you must follow if you want to perform, having a realtor who knows the market inside and out and practices what they preach is an absolute necessity.


 Thank you Nick. I appreciate the insight, referrals and advice. 

My husband and I are ready to invest in our first vacation property, likely in Florida. We hope to eventually have multiple properties, but want to take our time to learn and make the right decisions with our first rental. I should add it will be a short term rental property. 

What adds complexity to our plan, is that we live in Minnesota. We would like for the investment to be treated as active, of course. However, we will likely need a property manager to assist with some facets of running this rental (since we would not live locally) and would primarily market it through platforms such as Airbnb and VRBO to start, (eventually setting up a direct booking process).

Here's our question for those who have experience in STR's or who might be involved in a similar scenario: How challenging is it to meet the material participation hours needed to achieve active status? My husband is a high income W2 earner, and meeting active criteria would put some of our tax dollars back in our pocket. Is it possible to have a property manager who manages some of the property, while I manage the rest remotely? For instance, said property manager manages maintenance issues, problems that arise during bookings, basically anything that needs a physical person at the property, while I manage the rest? (i.e. initial decorating and painting, bookings, rate structures, marketing, bookkeeping housekeeping, etc)?


According to what I have read straight from the IRS website and other places, we need to either meet 500 hours, or at least 100 hours and also work more than anyone else on the property. I feel I could definitely meet both of those on my own, as my husband works full-time , and I will be the only person besides the hourly employees stated above that would be accruing hours. However, the one CPA I briefly talked to said the investment would be treated as passive. No real explanation as to why or whether there were exceptions to that. 


We are newbies, and don't want to miss out on a great investment and tax savings opportunity, but obviously want to do everything correctly in the eyes of Uncle Sam. Thank you so much in advance for your help.