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All Forum Posts by: Ann Howell

Ann Howell has started 15 posts and replied 123 times.

Post: Fraud with our Birmingham turnkey property

Ann HowellPosted
  • Investor
  • Houston, Tx
  • Posts 128
  • Votes 87
Originally posted by @Brie Schmidt:

I am so sorry to hear about this.  It is unfortunate that people operate in this manner and that Maverick did not step in to fix things for you.  

Thanks for sharing so others can learn from it.

FYI - My advice for out of state investors who can't make it to the market is to hire a local BP member to attend the inspection.  Get a disinterested third party involved to be your eyes and ears... well worth a few hundred bucks.  

 This is great advice.  Our situation would have been worse if we did not hire a fully independent inspector who visited the property twice.

Post: Fraud with our Birmingham turnkey property

Ann HowellPosted
  • Investor
  • Houston, Tx
  • Posts 128
  • Votes 87
Originally posted by @Greg H.:

I am assuming that you did not have your own agent and relied on their broker to assist with the transaction ?

I would pursue a complaint through the Alabama Real Estate Commission. This will not cost you any money out of pocket and is probably your only way to get any justice as most of these types of companies have already abandoned the old LLC or Corp and moved on to a new name

 Thanks, Greg.  We will do that. We are planning to file a complaint with the Attorney General, but we did not think about the Real Estate Commission.

Post: Fraud with our Birmingham turnkey property

Ann HowellPosted
  • Investor
  • Houston, Tx
  • Posts 128
  • Votes 87
Originally posted by @Spencer Sutton:

Sorry to hear this @Ann Howell 

They've been doing this for years under different entity names.

I know that Birmingham is a very popular place for people interested in Turnkey.  My advice would be to do two things:

1. Come to Birmingham and see the investment before it's purchased...that way you know the streets and better understand the area and neighborhood you're buying in.  There are several area where I would never buy a rental house...unfortunately, it's easy to buy a cheap house there and sell it to out of state investors as a turnkey deal when in all reality it's a piece of junk that will end up costing the investor thousands.

2. Visit with several property manager in the city.  There are enough groups here that are honest and will shoot you straight about the people you're thinking about working with and the houses you're considering buying.  Asking the right questions can save you big money.

@Joe Bertolino the reason why it's is popular is simple...turnkey providers can make 20k - 30k per transaction.  I used to buy/sell here in Birmingham but to local investors....out of state investors will pay a lot more than local groups.

 That is great advice.

Post: Fraud with our Birmingham turnkey property

Ann HowellPosted
  • Investor
  • Houston, Tx
  • Posts 128
  • Votes 87
Originally posted by @Doug N.:

@Ann Howell

Thank you for shining your bright light on these folks - it's the only thing that keeps them at bay. It's not easy to author stories like this. Much applause for your selfless post. Best of luck in the future. 

 Thanks for your post.  We spent a lot of time with the seller and the broker trying to work this out and we got nowhere. In last last few weeks, we have had multiple BP folks reach out to us who were in the same situation.  It was time to make this public.  I saw a post in the last few days that Maverick is having a Webinar for investors to learn about the Birmingham market.  Not sure if it is the same sellers or not, but others should know this history.

Post: Fraud with our Birmingham turnkey property

Ann HowellPosted
  • Investor
  • Houston, Tx
  • Posts 128
  • Votes 87
Originally posted by @Joe Bertolino:

Thanks for sharing. My biggest issue with TK is that it never made sense to me. Your goals are not aligned. I always figured that if a TK provider could deliver what they claimed to offer consistently and over a long period of time... they would either keep them or have huge corporate buyers gobbling up as many properties as they could deliver. The fact that they constantly have to hunt for small time buyers is one of many red flags for me.

I don't understand why somebody would do all of the legwork to secure properties below market, fund and manage a rehab, lease up and then hand over a great cash flowing property to a stranger while retaining the management headache. That is all the heaving lifting. It is like running the first 26 miles of a marathon then handing the bib off to somebody else that gets to sprint across the finish line to kiss your wife and hug your kids. None of it makes sense unless their one time rip and ongoing management fees are a better deal than the true monthly cash flow. When I go into any type of business arrangement or partnership I try to make sure our business interests and goals are 100% aligned. With TK investing, it simply can't be. More repairs and management fees from turnover equals more money for the TK provider and less money for the investor. Every extra penny they spend over engineering a rehab to avoid future maintenance issues is coming off their bottom line. Then they have no skin in the game if the property underperforms. It's like a perfect recipe to get screwed over. If you want relatively hassle free out of state investing, a commercial syndication deal makes much more sense to me.

 I can see why turnkey does not work well for many of the hard core RE investors here on BP. We won't get the same kind of great deals and returns that many of you achieve.  But it works for us right now.  I work an intense corporate job, have kids at home and have ailing parents.  I have money but not time.  I realize that I pay a premium for the properties - that is how the turnkey company makes money - but as long as the property meets our financial expectations, I am okay with that. Over time, we are likely to start doing more on our own.

Post: Fraud with our Birmingham turnkey property

Ann HowellPosted
  • Investor
  • Houston, Tx
  • Posts 128
  • Votes 87
Originally posted by @Account Closed:

@Ann Howell and @Tim Howell,

I'm really sorry you guys got ripped off by the shysters. I'm surprised you guys live in Houston and decided to invest in another state. Isn't Houston known for being a moderate cash-flow market with some appreciation? Was there a reason why you guys don't invest close to home and decided to take the current route?

The guy's name would have me ran the other way. If his last name is CONwill, you should have known he WILL CON you. Ok, it's a bad joke. 

Maverick is nothing more than a marketing company. It's apparent that they don't care who is getting ripped off as long as they get their referral fee. Thanks for exposing these guys. No doubt you have saved some others from getting ripped off by these people. Thanks for having the courage to share.

Good luck in the future. 

 We hope to invest in Houston at some point.  Right now, our main goal is cash flow.  We found that the Houston market seems overpriced relative to rents.  Also, the property taxes and flood insurance take a big chunk.  We will need to do some serious hunting and rehab to get a good cashflowing property in Houston.  Right now, turnkey fits our needs better.

Post: Fraud with our Birmingham turnkey property

Ann HowellPosted
  • Investor
  • Houston, Tx
  • Posts 128
  • Votes 87
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Originally posted by @Cal C.:

"Knowing how BP folks feel about turnkey properties in general, I want to say that we are not against the approach – we are in the process of closing two other turnkey properties with two different companies."

Really? Really?  Have you thought about it for more than 2-3 seconds?  

Seriously,  if you are actually thinking about doing another (or 2) turnkey I'd suggest going only with a company with at least a five year track record.  Most importantly talk to an investor with the company who has no other ties other than owning a turnkey property.  I'd push hard to talk to someone who actually made money on their property.   Not someone who swallowed the long term investment line.   

Also, I applaud you for naming names and admitting you'd been taken by a turnkey provider.  Most people won't and I think many others suffer because of it.  

There are so many variables on what can go wrong with TK.  This situation was blatant fraud.  Showing someone a lease that was forged is pretty bad and likely won't repeat itself.  But what makes the other 2 deals with TK providers in the works more promising? Have you talked to other investors who bought from them?  Used their PM? Are you visiting the properties?

 One mistake we made is that we spent more time checking out the broker, Maverick, than the actual seller.  We tried to to due diligence during the rehab process, but it is hard to do if there is fraud involved.

Post: Fraud with our Birmingham turnkey property

Ann HowellPosted
  • Investor
  • Houston, Tx
  • Posts 128
  • Votes 87
Originally posted by @Nat C.:

Thank you for sharing. Are you planning to take legal action?
They've probably scammed many others.

 We have been talking with several other BP folks who are in the same situation, so we will see.

Post: Fraud with our Birmingham turnkey property

Ann HowellPosted
  • Investor
  • Houston, Tx
  • Posts 128
  • Votes 87
Originally posted by @Watson Hilaire:

@Ann Howell sorry to hear the terrible experience you had. There were red flags such as the lying and unkept promises which would have caused me to walk. Have you develop a process/system to prevent this from happening in future turnkey deals?

 Yes.  We should have listened to our gut during the rehab and walked away from the deal. At the time of close, we had been working on the deal for 5 months.  And the appraisal came back for a good value, so we moved forward.  In the future, we expect integrity through every step of the process!

Post: Fraud with our Birmingham turnkey property

Ann HowellPosted
  • Investor
  • Houston, Tx
  • Posts 128
  • Votes 87

In March 2015, we worked through Maverick Investor Group to purchase a property in Birmingham, Alabama. The Seller was Birmingham Income Properties - owned by Brad Lewis and Bryan Conwill. Property Management would be done by their other company, Arbor Trace Real Estate.

There were many difficulties during the rehab and purchase process. Most importantly, about two months after closing on the purchase, we discovered there was not a tenant in the property.

According to our contract, the house would be fully rehabbed with new plumbing, electrical and appliances and have a tenant in place before closing. We were also promised a paying tenant in the house at closing; a specific rental amount; a specific cap rate; and told that if the rental rate was not met, the sales price for the house would be lowered to maintain the cap rate. All of these stipulations were promised jointly by Mr. Lewis and Maverick during a webinar in March.

Problems started during the rehab process. Timelines kept getting missed. The Seller claimed work was done that wasn’t and frequently lied about issues. Fortunately we hired an independent inspector who helped us hold them accountable for doing the promised work. The inspector pointed out an old water heater that the Seller claimed was new, among many other issues. We often discussed these issues with Maverick; their response was to praise our due diligence and repeat the promises we had been given.

The Seller told us a tenant was lined up, but at a lower rental rate than promised. We mentioned up the rent guarantee. The Seller refused to lower the sales price, and eventually told us the tenant had agreed to the original rent amount. Shortly before closing the Seller sent us a copy of a signed lease. We closed on the purchase in July, and hired Arbor Trace for property management.

Almost two months passed and we did not receive any rent or owner’s statements. We contacted Arbor Trace to ask about the situation; we discovered the companies were collapsing in dramatic fashion. One staff member told us the house we had bought was not occupied. We called the electric company and verified that there was no power at the house. The lease we had been shown in order to get us to close at the agreed price was a fraudulent lease!

At that point, we reached out to another PM group in Birmingham. They helped us secure the house (which was empty) and get the lawn cut (there was a city citation on the door about the overgrown lawn).

We are not convinced that this drama is over yet. But so far, we have:

  • Bought a house that will cash flow for $200 less a month than promised
  • Dealt with a fraudulent lease
  • Had to find a new PM company
  • Had to spend at least $1000 to get the house rent ready
  • Paid a $500 bill to the electrical company to cover an unpaid bill
  • Been sent one check by the Seller to cover some costs – the check bounced (twice)
  • Received no substantive support from Maverick – they completely failed on their due diligence

Knowing how BP folks feel about turnkey properties in general, I want to say that we are not against the approach – we are in the process of closing two other turnkey properties with two different companies.

Our warning – stay away from the groups and people mentioned here and always do your due diligence!