All Forum Posts by: Alex Keim

Quote from @Sarah Kensinger:

We are listed across 8-10 different sites and use Jurny for our PMS that keeps everything synchronized. The more sites the better and like you said it's no cost to you. 

A little P.S. up the prices by a small percentage to cover the increase in host fees, works like magic for the extra cost and the guest never know!

 What do you think of Jurny so far? Was thinking of giving it a try

One more question on this. My property usually returns in the top 2 or 3 properties when you search my area. Once I add VRBO then theoretically roughly half of my bookings are going to come from VRBO. Has anyone tried to observe the effect this has on your search results? I realize it's a pretty specific scenario but at the same time I image most people start on only AirBNB and then expand to VRBO once they have their listing stablized.

Quote from @Michael Baum:

Hey @Alex Keim, I sure hope you get the idea that you should list on VRBO as well as AirBNB.

It's like you are selling a car. You only put it in your driveway with a sign on it. You will get some traction but you would get much more advertising it on Craigslist and Facebook.

It makes no sense to not take advantage of the VRBO platform.

We just got another booking for next year, VRBO.

 I think a better analogy is

Imagine I am selling my widget by advertising only on Facebook. Everyone is buying the sparkly ones but no one wants to buy the brown ones. Should I advertise on Twitter to try to sell more of the brown ones? Everyone is overwhelmingly telling me "yes of course! you will reach people on Twitter that you don't reach on Facebook". And my response is "Yes, but how many more of the brown ones can I really sell and what's it going to cost me to sell them"

Quote from @Turo Tales:

Quote from @Alex Keim:

Quote from @Patricia Andriolo-Bull:

Quote from @Alex Keim:

I appreciate everyone's feedback but I am still curious if there are any professional PM's with case studies. For example, let's say you manage 100 properties and over the last couple of years some have decided they no longer want to list on VRBO. Did the occupancy rates of those properties decrease in a way that similar properties in the portfolio did not decrease? I know for certain there are professional PM's that stopped listing on VRBO a few years back when they changed their policies, but I don't know those PM's well enough to get the relevant data.

My first inclination was "I need 5% or more increase in occupancy to make it worthwhile". So I went on the Google machine and according to AirDNA you get a 4% bump by being on both. Falls a little short of my 5% but it is close enough to make me wonder. My high value nights are going to book with or without VRBO so really that 4% increase is going to come from the lower value nights. So the increase in revenue probably ends up being 5-6%.

Maybe I am over estimating the cost though. Maybe I don't need 5% to make it worthwhile? Can you really manage both platforms without paid property management software? You have to keep the calendars sync'd, the pricing sync'd, the photos sync'd, the descriptions sync'd, guidebooks, messages, etc, etc. 

 I am not a large scale PM but from what I am reading here, others posts and yours, it seems that you want to get the answer you are looking for (that it doesn't make sense to list on both).  If you are looking to increase your occupancy and ADR, it does.  Period.  Some markets are more VRBO centric and others are AirBNB.  As I stated before, mine went from 80% VRBO for the first three years and I am now 80% AirBNB - no idea why.  You are overcomplicating the syncing process.  You set up iCal and it's automatic.  You do need to keep the listings up to date (description, photos, etc.) but that is not that much work for one property once it is set up.  My two cents and I have 3 properties.  From the PM perspective, they have larger scale and are able to drive more direct bookings but I see all the PMs in my area still listed on both platforms and others.

 Really I was just hoping a PM with a lot of properties had data to share. Definitely don't want to sound combative because I appreciate everyone sharing their experiences. However most the answers seem to be some form of "most of my bookings come from VRBO" which I don't think is that relevant unless there is a significant cost benefit to that. 

To me this is a simple cost benefit analysis. According to AirDNA the average occupancy of a property listed on only AirBNB is 54%. A property listed on both is 58%. So that's a difference of 15 days per year. My average rate in the offseason (where the difference is going to come from) is going to be around $250/night. So that's $3750 per year. So my cost has to be less than $3750 to make it financially worthwhile. And then it has to be enough of a difference for it to make sense for the time cost. Really what I'm hoping for is for someone to tell me "Don't listent to the AirDNA averages. They are wrong because AirBNB has a lot of single rooms listed that skew the data. We manage a 100 properties in a tourist area and comparable properties listed on both platforms have 65% occupancy while properties only on AirBNB have 55% occupancy". Some form of that is what I'm hoping to hear. Obviously there is a part of me that thinks this might be the case. My main take away so far is that I am probably overthinking the cost quite a bit.

 I just synced the calendars on both for free based on the overwhelming advice. What costs are you worried about? 

You don't miss out on anything. I'm guessing that you are looking at some third party that you have to pay, but it took me 15 minutes to figure it out and would have been much shorter had I followed directions the first time. There is no additional cost to do this beyond the time it takes to do it and then manage it on two different platforms. 

$0.00 is less than $3750 so it should be worth it. 

Initially I was worried about having older guests more frequently which is what I have heard about VRBO. Let's face it, older guests have trouble with tech generally speaking. So I was thinking that would lead to more "Can you come over and show me how to work the thermostat/tv remote/wifi/hot tub/etc". But from hearing others I think I might be worried about this one for no reason.

Regarding physical costs, yes, I was thinking of using a software service. Hostaway runs at $150/mo if I am correct plus like $8/mo or something like that for nightly rate management. So approaching $2000/yr. It's the managing on two different platforms I'm worried about most. I agree sync'ing the calendar is easy. But unless you are running flat rate prices and never updating photos, descriptions, messages, guest books, etc, this seems like a greater than $0 cost without a PMS solution. Guestly does it for $50/mo for one property I believe so I am going to check that out. I am convinced at this point to go ahead and list on both, I think it's going to be less of a cost than I had feared. Still if any professional PM comes along and posts the info I am looking for I would greatly appreciate it. 

Quote from @Patricia Andriolo-Bull:

Quote from @Alex Keim:

I appreciate everyone's feedback but I am still curious if there are any professional PM's with case studies. For example, let's say you manage 100 properties and over the last couple of years some have decided they no longer want to list on VRBO. Did the occupancy rates of those properties decrease in a way that similar properties in the portfolio did not decrease? I know for certain there are professional PM's that stopped listing on VRBO a few years back when they changed their policies, but I don't know those PM's well enough to get the relevant data.

My first inclination was "I need 5% or more increase in occupancy to make it worthwhile". So I went on the Google machine and according to AirDNA you get a 4% bump by being on both. Falls a little short of my 5% but it is close enough to make me wonder. My high value nights are going to book with or without VRBO so really that 4% increase is going to come from the lower value nights. So the increase in revenue probably ends up being 5-6%.

Maybe I am over estimating the cost though. Maybe I don't need 5% to make it worthwhile? Can you really manage both platforms without paid property management software? You have to keep the calendars sync'd, the pricing sync'd, the photos sync'd, the descriptions sync'd, guidebooks, messages, etc, etc. 

 I am not a large scale PM but from what I am reading here, others posts and yours, it seems that you want to get the answer you are looking for (that it doesn't make sense to list on both).  If you are looking to increase your occupancy and ADR, it does.  Period.  Some markets are more VRBO centric and others are AirBNB.  As I stated before, mine went from 80% VRBO for the first three years and I am now 80% AirBNB - no idea why.  You are overcomplicating the syncing process.  You set up iCal and it's automatic.  You do need to keep the listings up to date (description, photos, etc.) but that is not that much work for one property once it is set up.  My two cents and I have 3 properties.  From the PM perspective, they have larger scale and are able to drive more direct bookings but I see all the PMs in my area still listed on both platforms and others.

 Really I was just hoping a PM with a lot of properties had data to share. Definitely don't want to sound combative because I appreciate everyone sharing their experiences. However most the answers seem to be some form of "most of my bookings come from VRBO" which I don't think is that relevant unless there is a significant cost benefit to that. 

To me this is a simple cost benefit analysis. According to AirDNA the average occupancy of a property listed on only AirBNB is 54%. A property listed on both is 58%. So that's a difference of 15 days per year. My average rate in the offseason (where the difference is going to come from) is going to be around $250/night. So that's $3750 per year. So my cost has to be less than $3750 to make it financially worthwhile. And then it has to be enough of a difference for it to make sense for the time cost. Really what I'm hoping for is for someone to tell me "Don't listent to the AirDNA averages. They are wrong because AirBNB has a lot of single rooms listed that skew the data. We manage a 100 properties in a tourist area and comparable properties listed on both platforms have 65% occupancy while properties only on AirBNB have 55% occupancy". Some form of that is what I'm hoping to hear. Obviously there is a part of me that thinks this might be the case. My main take away so far is that I am probably overthinking the cost quite a bit.

Quote from @Nathan Gesner:

Quote from @Alex Keim:

Quote from @Nathan Gesner:

I listed on both. AirBnB had a lot more last-minute bookings, and VRBO is where we got most of our advanced bookings. The customers from VRBO were of better quality. 

This is compelling. If advanced bookings come from VRBO that is theoretically at a better rate. And with the subscription model of VRBO that is potentially more money coming to me vs going to AirBNB. So even if the overall occupancy rate only moves from 55% to 59% it may move the revenue more.

How do you manage both platforms? Manually or do you use a PMS?

Property manager. They market on VRBO, AirBnB, HomeAway, Travelocity, and many other sites. Most reservations came through the PM website, then VRBO, then AirBnB. I think around 5% came from other sources.

 Ah yeah, then they are probably using Hostaway.

Quote from @Nathan Gesner:

I listed on both. AirBnB had a lot more last-minute bookings, and VRBO is where we got most of our advanced bookings. The customers from VRBO were of better quality. 

This is compelling. If advanced bookings come from VRBO that is theoretically at a better rate. And with the subscription model of VRBO that is potentially more money coming to me vs going to AirBNB. So even if the overall occupancy rate only moves from 55% to 59% it may move the revenue more.

How do you manage both platforms? Manually or do you use a PMS?

Quote from @John Underwood:

Absolutely. 

We get 95% of our bookings from Vrbo.

 That is extreme. Do you drive guests to VRBO for some reason?

I appreciate everyone's feedback but I am still curious if there are any professional PM's with case studies. For example, let's say you manage 100 properties and over the last couple of years some have decided they no longer want to list on VRBO. Did the occupancy rates of those properties decrease in a way that similar properties in the portfolio did not decrease? I know for certain there are professional PM's that stopped listing on VRBO a few years back when they changed their policies, but I don't know those PM's well enough to get the relevant data.

My first inclination was "I need 5% or more increase in occupancy to make it worthwhile". So I went on the Google machine and according to AirDNA you get a 4% bump by being on both. Falls a little short of my 5% but it is close enough to make me wonder. My high value nights are going to book with or without VRBO so really that 4% increase is going to come from the lower value nights. So the increase in revenue probably ends up being 5-6%.

Maybe I am over estimating the cost though. Maybe I don't need 5% to make it worthwhile? Can you really manage both platforms without paid property management software? You have to keep the calendars sync'd, the pricing sync'd, the photos sync'd, the descriptions sync'd, guidebooks, messages, etc, etc. 

I have a single STR (4 bed ocean view home) located in a small coastal town on the west coast. It went live just a few months ago at the beginning of summer. Currently it is listed only on AirBNB. The summer occupancy was very high but now that we are hitting the offseason I'm wondering if it's worthwhile to also list on VRBO. While the cost of doing so is not high it's also not zero in time nor money. Ideally I'd be able to run my own A/B experiments but I imagine there are tons of PM's in here that already have all the data. So, the question is, is it worth the extra cost (time and money) to add my listing to VRBO?

Costs I'm assuming:

1) Hostaway subscription and dynamic pricing subscription

2) Perceived older guests. "Can you send someone out to show us how to work the tv remote?"

Thank you