Confession – I No Longer Follow Seth William’s Land Methods - Exactly

If you have gotten in to land investing in the last few years, or are considering it now – there’s a good chance Seth Williams, of REtipster.com, has had something to do with it. For me, it was Bigger Pockets podcast # 39. I followed that podcast by listening to every other podcast or interview with him I could find and reading as much as I could find on land investing on Bigger Pockets and the internet, including Seth’s extensive blog and websites of other seasoned land investors.

After much study (too much – but that’s another story), I began by following Seth’s approach, quite literally, by getting lists of potential tax-delinquent properties from various sources, sending 100’s of solicitation letters, and getting a response to about 20% of the letters

So what? I now make contact with 80+% of target owners and I don’t do mailing campaigns.

At first, I was disappointed by the quantity of “Return to Sender / Address Unknown” mail I got back – the bigger part of that 20% I mentioned above was my returned mail (heh, it’s a response). I thought: waste of time, envelopes, and postage – great, how do I get better lists? So, I switched from using AgentPro lists to using lists obtained directly from counties. But, the return rate on mass mailings was not better. (“Duh” – AgentPro is probably getting their info from the county). Then it hit me, a likely reason taxes haven’t been paid is because the properties (the return mail ones) aren’t of much interest to owners so they forgot, or never bothered, to update their addresses with the county when they moved. Next light bulb moment – if I can’t find them easily, no one else can (less competition). But, if I could find them, maybe I could get deals no one else can get. Fortunately I saved those return envelopes, so I could keep track of how much time and postage I was wasting on bad addresses.

I looked for way to find the owners (or heirs) that weren’t gifted to me by way of a good address and a motivated response to my letters. Now I search the internet first. I’ve had luck with Facebook, LinkedIn, several people finder sites, a certain genealogy site, and the random internet search. But, what works best is a combination / triangulation of these tools.

I use a couple paid internet search services. The one that seems to serve me best is BeenVerified.com. I also use Spokeo. I get better results with BeenVerified, but occasionally locate a lead on Spokeo I didn’t also find on BeenVerified; or, Spokeo has an e-mail address when been BeenVerified did not.

I found the free site, FamilyTreeNow, does an amazing job of suggesting addresses for folks – particularly older landowners. I’ve read negative reviews of the site, saying they are scammers or they are collect and sell your information to others, etc. Quite frankly, I never given them any info other than an e-mail address (that I use just for such sites). I do get occasional e-mail prompts from the site telling me I haven’t completed my profile and I am missing out by not doing so. I ignore them.

With Facebook, it is helpful to have, via the other resources, a recent (or better – current) city for the owner. And, even better, know of potential relatives or associates. This allows you to ensure you’ve located the right person based on cross-checking “friends” lists.

I’ve had luck with Linked locating an owner that tied to a business (i.e. an LLC or C Corp that once was their path to get rich, but no longer active). Some folks leave them in their list of whom they worked for or owned. I located an individual owner, who has lived in Germany for the past decade, of a property that is about three hours away from me in central Texas via LinkedIn.

So what then?

If I have a list of possible phone numbers for the owner, I call them (even if I have addresses). I prefer to get on with, know if the property is a prospect and if I have a valid owner. Mail takes times. It rare I can’t find a list of numbers to try. Often when I call, I just get voice mail or no answer. And, when I’ve been able to leave a message, – I get no response. I just keep calling and eventually I catch them at home. But, if I don’t touch base by phone, and if I have any e-mail addresses, I send a note. If I happen to have left a voice mail message as well, I indicate that in my e-mail. As a last resort, if I did not locate a phone number or an e-mail, and I have addresses that are said to be (by the people finder service) more recent than the county had for the owner – I send a letter. If I have a degree of confidence in the address, because it turned up via multiple sources, and if I have sent e-mail or left voice mail, I send a letter that requires a signature confirmation (but only if it is a property in which I have a great deal of interest). I don’t usually get any better response from the “signature required” letter but, I follow it up with another phone call or e-mail – to which I usually get a response, even if it is “I am not interested and leave me alone.”

When I do talk to someone, the first conversation very seldom ends in a deal. It usually takes two calls. Instead, they hang up from the first call with the knowledge they have a property in another area of the country for which they are tax delinquent, they know why I sought them out, how I found them (they seem to always want to know this) and what I am willing to pay for the property. Often, they want to think about it – after all, I hit them cold on something to which they’ve given no thought for years. If they don’t want to commit on the first call, I always ask if I can call them in about three days to check back – add I do it. In other instances, when they say they say they’d like to go see the property or … (whatever) first, I ask if I can check back in a week, a month, or whatever seems appropriate given their reason for not discussing a sale now. I always try to get, or validate, their e-mail. “Can I get your e-mail address so I can send you note recapping my offer and include my contact info to make it easy for you after you’ve thought on it?” If it is someone who isn’t interested in selling, I ask if I could get an e-mail address and drop them a note in a year or so to see if anything has changed. I give them my number and e-mail also, just in case anything changes in their world before I reach out to them again.

So what now?

After working through my stack of returned solicitation letters, I migrated to applying the same “find them directly” approach to my ongoing lists of delinquent properties. I narrow the lists down to properties having an acceptable size, value, location, etc. I reach out to the owners in the same manner as described above and then “lather, rinse, repeat”.

Recap: Seth’s Method, but modified to fit my preferences:

• 1. Focus on vacant land – check
• 2. Obtain lists of delinquent properties – check
• 3. Solicit of area owners – check
• 4. Mass mail campaigns – nope (directly call / e-mail them now)
• 5. Wait on owners to respond to solicitation – nope (engage first now)
• 6. Make low, relative to my perceived value, offers – check
• 7. Do simple contracts – check
• 8. Pay cash – check
• 9. Close fast – check
• 10. Sell for more – check (so far)