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Posted about 14 years ago

BiggerPockets Loses the Battle to School You in Real Estate

Henry Ford once said, "Failure is only the opportunity to begin again, only this time more wisely.

I believe that is the case here.

As most of you know, BiggerPockets has for the past weeks, been planning a real estate teleseminar on rehabbing, scheduled for May 25.  This event was to be the beginning of a series of educational calls and webinars, inspired by your requests for us to put them on.  We had put together a fine list of very successful real estate investors and others who we wanted to get for future events, and knew that you’d get a mind-blowing education out of each.

In our surveys to our members and in private discussions, you have told us that you wanted BiggerPockets to put these events on.  

You requested it.

We listened.

But, in true BiggerPockets style, this event wasn’t going to be like the others out there. We were offering a 90-minute event with no sales pitch and no nonsense, from a true expert in his field – an hour and a half of non-stop education.  There are very few events out there that take this approach; most are free events that pepper the bare minimum of valuable information, with the bulk of the event designed to upsell you on some other, expensive product, training, etc.  I’ve been approached my many of the gurus who have asked that we help market their seminars for a nice 50% cut of the action, and each time, they took the same approach.  They knew that people would get caught up in the hype, and they would make their money on the upsell.  

Putting these things together takes time and costs real money.  Our plan was to give a great event, offer as part of the price a great book, and for our effort, we’d walk out with a little bit of profit. You, of course, would walk away with your minds blown by the depth and breadth of information offered.

That was the plan.

Let me remind you all that I hate hype.  I think it takes away from the real intent of offering a real estate education -- the part where you get content usable and actual education;  but I contend that isn’t the intent of their events.  It is to sell you and it works!  We wanted to do it differently . . .

Failure to Market?

We also decided that we’d market it differently.  Instead of relying on countless annoying pitch emails(you all know what I'm talking about here), we promoted it through our BiggerPockets platform and through just a few emails to our list of over 35,000 people.

Over the five plus years I’ve been running BP, I’ve read many discussions where you have talked about your dislike of the current system that the marketers use to sell their real estate events and products, and we choose to keep that in mind when promoting this one.

We failed.

We failed because we listened.  

Apparently, you really do want to get all those emails in your inbox.  Apparently when a network of gurus all promote the same event, it validates that event to you, even if it may offer little to no value.  Apparently, I should have listened to a few people who told me that I needed to use the "standard formula" of email marketing for this event.

If that is how it must be done, then I don’t want to have anything to do with it.

I hoped that you’d see through all the noise to see the real value that we were offering, but I guess that we just didn’t get it right.  

We’ve had a whopping 3 – yep, you’re reading that right – three signups for this event.  

I don’t think I need to tell you how bad that number is given our 51,000+ members and 35,000+ email subscribers.

It is really bad.

So bad that these three people have been refunded their money and we’ve cancelled the event.

Perhaps there is another way to offer this education to you . . .

Perhaps we can still change the way things are done in the “real estate education” space?

After this experience, though, I’m not sure we can.

We’re going to take a little bit of time to lick our wounds, and then see if we can take another approach to bring you great information while making a buck or two for our efforts.

Keeping it Real

I’ve been told by some that I should have just used an excuse such as technical problems or issues with our speaker in cancelling, but I just can’t do that.  I’d be lying to myself and to you.  That's not how I roll.

We tried.  We failed.  We’ll begin again . . . this time more wisely.

Josh

Comments (20)

  1. Thanks Stan. I've got some plans, but they will take a bit of time to put together. Meanwhile, I really appreciate your message. Please help spread the word to other brokers and agents how helpful BiggerPockets can be to their business. Most agents/brokers/lenders have little understanding of investing, and as a result, miss out on a lot of opportunities for themselves and their clients. There's nowhere better to learn, ask questions, or network with other real estate investors than BP. All my best, Josh


  2. Josh, As a RE Broker, I cannot begin to tell you how much I've learned in my short while as a BP'er. More importantly, there are so many additional questions I would like to ask, but do not want to wear out the welcoming mat. Let me know where I can send my check, so whenever you do decide to put this program together, I'm in.


  3. Thanks for the continued responses. That's how it goes Will, I guess. I've got a few ideas which will separate the men from the boys down the line . . . it'll be a few months, but we'll then know who is serious about BP and their real estate business, and who isn't.


  4. It is simply amazing to me that only 3 people signed up for this event. I was one of several who made the offer to Josh to educate you all on the subjects and I am just as dissapointed as Josh that the response, for lack of a better word, SUCKED. It is also amazing to me that so many people responded to this message from Josh, yet when it comes to pulling the trigger, getting off the couch and making something happen, people seem to just remain" kicking the tire". I was also asked, even begged by many here to run another program I developed for REO buy fix and flip and yet, when it comes down to actually doing it now dthat I agreed, only 3 of the 15 or so people who requested we do another actually pulled the trigger. Until BP Nation stops kicking tires and starts doing, I guess Josh and teh rest of us will have to remain amazed and dissapointed at the reults. Kuddos to Josh for trying though, it was a valient effort and I commend you on not going guru in your marketing (which we all despise, although it appears that hype is all that really sells!)


  5. You have to market stuff no matter what it is.


  6. Hi Josh. I was first introduced to "direct response" marketing in the corporate and agency world and later in the more entrepreneurial environment of the internet. Lots of emails and hype, when used properly, gets results. No matter how sophisticated you think your client base is, bring it down to "putting a doughnut in front of Homer Simpson"......doesn't matter if it's private jets or real estate courses.....compelling copy to targeted list is key. In terms of value, you have it already, so don't feel bad to PROMOTE that value. You've got a great thing going here. Keep on truck'in.


  7. I would have signed up If I had realised that was what the email was about. I looked at my past unopened emails. Since the subject line ("BiggerPockets is about to school you!") did not clue me in on the content, the email just got filed. When I'm going through hundreds of email daily, I tend to just file the ones that look like a sales pitch. For me anyway, ones with informative subject lines tend to get opened first. Just a thought.


  8. Joshua, I appreciate the honesty of your post. I hope you can find a way to make BP work for you financially; it is a fantastic resource. (FYI: I never knew of the seminar, although I doubt I would have signed up.) You may want to send out more emails, but converting free members to paying members seems nearly impossible on the internet. Just ot share, I run a 27,500 member social network (in a different niche) and have recently tried creating a premium membership level. The response has been as bad as yours was. So, I don't think you should think of this as a failure rather than just teh norm, teh baseline. If you do figure out a way to help your members, and turn your labor of love into a business at the same time, that would be a great success. I wish you luck. Mark


  9. wow shows how long its been since I have been on here, I would have signed up as well. $49 isn't bad with a book to go with it. And Josh I respect you for your honesty I would like to see this ball get rolling again.


  10. Thanks Mark! Eli - I very much appreciate your commentary.


  11. I love this site and the honesty of Joshua D. Let's me know I can trust his judgement; that inspires me to maintain my honesty and integrity in all I do. I want people to effortlessly believe in me also. "We tried. We failed. We’ll begin again . . . this time more wisely."-Takes a real Man/Woman to admit defeat and courage to try again-that's priceless


  12. Being new, I was poking around and found this. It is a great idea. Education is something that everyone can benefit from. I am new to this website, but I would volunteer to help in any way towards educating us(and me in the long run). Let me know if I can help. Mark


  13. Folks - The webinars are off the table for now . . . we may explore the option again in the future, but I've got other plans that I think will be much more successful in the long run. More to come soon.


  14. Why not just make the event a sticky at the top of the forum? Wouldn't that pull better than an email push that most people will ignore?


  15. Hell, I'd sign up just to financially contribute to this site. BP is definitely worth it.


  16. I would like to say that I am extremely disappointed that I was not aware of this teleseminar. I recently purchased a home to rehab and would have loved to hear what someone with much more knowledge on the situation had to say. I did not receive an e-mail or other notification as to the upcoming teleseminar as I would have signed up straight away. Please do not give up on this concept as I absolutely hate listening to any sort of webinar as there is only enough information to get you to buy whatever it is they are selling. Which, oddly enough, usually gives you just enough information to buy their coaching program. Please don't give up. I look forward to, and will keep an eye out for, your next teleseminar. Thank you, Eric Van Kirk


  17. Dear mr. Dorkin; We all know Helen Keller (1880-1968) American Writer. etc., she had a rebellious attitude at first because she was in a dark area. She enthused with only in what she can apply, she had so very little to choose from; yet, she inspired millons worlwide and still does. Ms Keller, once wrote "The one resolution, which was in my mind long before it took the form of a resolution, is the key-note of my life. It is this, always to regard as mere impertinences of fate the handicaps which were placed upon my life almost at the beginning. I resolved that they should not crush or dwarf my soul, but rather be made to blossom, like Aaron's rod, with flowers". Sir. You quoted Henry Ford "Failure is only the opportunity to begin again, only this time more wisely" He gave us the assembly line, it makes a project an individual involvement to a goal . Seven-up was tryed six times before it hit the market The light bulb was accomplished after a thousand mishap. When asked about it the inventer said "he now knows a thou sand ways how not to do it ".,etc,, So Josh, " We tried. We failed. We’ll begin again . . this time more wisely." Yes sir, I honor and respect your decision. and you're approaches are only "noble approach" as i quote -T Chaashab. Now as a member of BP, Mr Eddy said "I am not currently interested" in that subject plus he too would of joined the webinar: kindergarden simple --should we (members) choose the speaker (I was very happy with the first quest).. I get a least two offers a week to listern on how to build a better mouse TRAP, so I know , your offer was special (no selling). Sir, stay motivated and help us achieve our goals with this new tool and in behalf of the B/P universe - Thank You


  18. The gurus are selling people hype in the form of a get rich quick scheme. That's their product, the dream of making a lot of money with little effort, a shortcut so to speak. It seems misguided to think that you were going to achieve the same results when you're selling a totally different product. It's apples and oranges in my opinion.


  19. Had I know I would have been the 4th person to attend. I think you have a noble approach, however I had no idea this event was taking place. I believe marketing with some of the new technique out there will make the next event great (including marketing to the email addresses of your members with a noble offer). Also you might have already thought of this, but consider recording the event with the "guru's" and promote to the network, those interested will purchase the book and getting access to the content for a year. At least with that the funds from book sales can offset the cost of marketing and you can minimize your risk of failure via an automated and viral technique.


  20. Josh, I think it was/is a great idea the problem from my perspective is that the webinar was on a subject I am not currently interested. If the right subject came up I might sign up for it. In addition, you are right, I get so many almost spam invites that I have a special account, just for real estate offers. Brother, keep on keeping on and you will find the right time for everything. Dave