Is this an end to Wholesaling?

[Alan Asriants]

Bigger pockets just released an article that goes into Wholesaling and how it can become illegal to Wholesale Real Estate in South Carolina.

Here is the link for reference:

https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/new-south-carolina-law-wo...

Wholesaling real estate seems like a great strategy but with that strategy, I've seen a lot of fishy characters who promote things that aren't true, lie to sellers directly, lie to Buyers and intentionally misrepresent information. Some of this misrepresented information includes things like after repair values, repair costs, rental comps and more. 

I have even encountered wholesalers who push properties with title issues onto buyers that are not knowledgeable enough to understand that this issue could be a very serious problem. 

A lot of the pitch that wholesalers make to sellers is that they were going to be buying a property with cash, even though they have no cash. So if they don't end up finding a buyer to reassign the contract to, they just lied to the seller and wasted their time. 

Again, this is not to bash on all wholesalers, because I do believe that there are some decent people out there. That being said, the majority of my experience comes from people who are pushy salesman who try to get you to buy something. 

At the end of the day, wholesaling real estate is like getting a net listing for a real estate agent. Except the real estate agent discloses that they will be making the difference upfront and not lying to the seller about buying their property for cash. 

That being said, in many states and jurisdictions net listings are actually illegal. 

My personal opinion was that a lot of this Wholesaling activity couldn't go on much longer. There had to be a breaking point, where unlicensed and unaccredited individuals could be handling real estate transactions. Lots of these individuals didn't have mentors or licensed professionals to help guide them through a transaction process. And on top of that I have seen files were there has been over five wholesalers, making a cut from the sale of a property. 

So before that property went into the buyers hands it went through five other individuals. They were all making money on this transaction, and likely not being transparent with the original owner. 

I remember, speaking directly with wholesalers, who would tell me not to disclose that a profit is being made. 

Look, I respect the hustle. I am all for individuals trying to make their way in the Real Estate sphere. But there has to be a way that is more transparent with individuals. We can't have a large amount of unregulated people, pushing values, and figures onto the end consumer who will be the one that's really suffering at the end of the road. 

To extend an olive branch there are plenty of bad real estate agents that also push things onto their clients, but those individuals work under a broker who carries a fiduciary duty to their client. Here there are no licenses regulations or implemented ethics. 

What are your thoughts? 

[James Wise]

Quote from @Hector Perez:

Every state is different, and I think you are an expert on your state no doubt about it, but you can not say it is illegal everywhere else, where I see licensed agents and brokers doing it all the time in other states

So what you are saying is not 100% valid

You've seen other people doing it, so it can't be illegal? That's the argument you've reduced yourself too? There were 24,849 homicides in America in 2022, was homicide not illegal in 2022?

[Hector Perez]

Lol, brokers and agents are doing it following real estate attorneys' advice that know the state law and comply with the state requirements.

Just because you hate wholesaling, does it mean it cannot be done and is illegal everywhere?

Just because I think, the Dallas Cowboys are the best team in the world, does not make it real, lol

[Randi Nicole]

It took me 2 days to read this post. Some logic was used but a lot of emotion lol. This was a very dramatic post. I think the author only commented once lol. This was exhausting and informative to read.

[Alan Asriants]

Quote from @Randi Nicole:

It took me 2 days to read this post. Some logic was used but a lot of emotion lol. This was a very dramatic post. I think the author only commented once lol. This was exhausting and informative to read.

 You should go back and review the whole forum thread; I responded multiple times. 2 days seems pretty long to read that post. 

[Don Konipol]

Since nobody has posted on this thread for almost one month, I will provide some of my personal thoughts.

If by wholesaling we actually mean “flipping”, that is buying or tying up a property and then almost immediately reselling that property for a profit, then wholesaling will NEVER be dead as long as we have even a semblance of a capitalist system.  ‘Wholesaling” may not be as prevalent as it is today; may not be pushed by countless gurus; may not be in the same form as we know it.  But people will buy properties at a below market price and “flip” them for profit without changing the property in any way.  Here’s an example of what I’m talking about; in 2020 my partner and I purchased a 9,965 square foot office/warehouse which had just been vacated by the tenant, for $625,000.  We immediately placed it on the market, and within 7 months had sold it for $1,050,000.  Yes, we had information before the purchase NOT available to the general public.  If this was a publicly traded security we’d be guilty of trading on inside information, etc., but that does not apply to real property transactions.  Further ,we could have “flipped” the property to the same buyer at almost the same price in a matter of DAYS, and would have except that 3 days after our purchase the buyer’s financing was shut down because of the COVID pandemic.   Here are take aways as to how I see “wholesale” transactions (flipping properties) in the future 

1. Most profitable transaction will be cash purchases followed by sales

2. Flipping contracts won’t exist - it will be replaced by “wholesaler” obtaining an OPTION to purchase at a set price and selling the option.

3. Commercial real estate won’t be affected by these changes and will continue operating a it always has 

4. It will require a LOT of capital to do this as a business

5. Consumer laws will be passed making flipping or wholesaling homeowner property nearly impossible.  

Interested to know your thoughts….

[John Ma]

Quote from @Don Konipol:

Since nobody has posted on this thread for almost one month, I will provide some of my personal thoughts.

If by wholesaling we actually mean “flipping”, that is buying or tying up a property and then almost immediately reselling that property for a profit, then wholesaling will NEVER be dead as long as we have even a semblance of a capitalist system.  ‘Wholesaling” may not be as prevalent as it is today; may not be pushed by countless gurus; may not be in the same form as we know it.  But people will buy properties at a below market price and “flip” them for profit without changing the property in any way.  Here’s an example of what I’m talking about; in 2020 my partner and I purchased a 9,965 square foot office/warehouse which had just been vacated by the tenant, for $625,000.  We immediately placed it on the market, and within 7 months had sold it for $1,050,000.  Yes, we had information before the purchase NOT available to the general public.  If this was a publicly traded security we’d be guilty of trading on inside information, etc., but that does not apply to real property transactions.  Further ,we could have “flipped” the property to the same buyer at almost the same price in a matter of DAYS, and would have except that 3 days after our purchase the buyer’s financing was shut down because of the COVID pandemic.   Here are take aways as to how I see “wholesale” transactions (flipping properties) in the future 

1. Most profitable transaction will be cash purchases followed by sales

2. Flipping contracts won’t exist - it will be replaced by “wholesaler” obtaining an OPTION to purchase at a set price and selling the option.

3. Commercial real estate won’t be affected by these changes and will continue operating a it always has 

4. It will require a LOT of capital to do this as a business

5. Consumer laws will be passed making flipping or wholesaling homeowner property nearly impossible.  

Interested to know your thoughts….

 We can come up with all kinds of definitions of what wholesaling is and isn't.  I think we all know what it means when talking about "wholesaling". They want to get rid of people posing to be cash buyers (when they don't have any means to purchase) and locking sellers under a contract to resell.  

I spoke to the CEO of a publicly traded brokerage recently about NAR and wholesaling to see if its something on his radar. His immediate response is they're coming down on wholesaling state by state and there will be legislation everywhere real soon.

That said, SC was the first state to really come down hard. Yet people are still doing wholesaling in SC.  There are closing attorneys still doing them, but they won't reveal who as they don't want to draw attention.  There will always be ways to do deals, and people will always do them until you can't that way anymore. 

I know people that will go on a cash appointment and pull a bait and switch and become the Agent for them.  Its an easy convo if you tell them they'll just charge the buyer (just like a wholesaler would charge the buyer a net fee).

I have a friend who will even do a novation on a listing agreement, where he found a buyer that will pay significantly more than what the seller wants to net, and novate the listing agreement to make the commission 10%, 15%, ect to reflect what percentage the pay out from what the buyer will pay.

Theres a million ways to do a deal.

[Alan Asriants]

Quote from @John Ma:

Quote from @Don Konipol:

Since nobody has posted on this thread for almost one month, I will provide some of my personal thoughts.

If by wholesaling we actually mean “flipping”, that is buying or tying up a property and then almost immediately reselling that property for a profit, then wholesaling will NEVER be dead as long as we have even a semblance of a capitalist system.  ‘Wholesaling” may not be as prevalent as it is today; may not be pushed by countless gurus; may not be in the same form as we know it.  But people will buy properties at a below market price and “flip” them for profit without changing the property in any way.  Here’s an example of what I’m talking about; in 2020 my partner and I purchased a 9,965 square foot office/warehouse which had just been vacated by the tenant, for $625,000.  We immediately placed it on the market, and within 7 months had sold it for $1,050,000.  Yes, we had information before the purchase NOT available to the general public.  If this was a publicly traded security we’d be guilty of trading on inside information, etc., but that does not apply to real property transactions.  Further ,we could have “flipped” the property to the same buyer at almost the same price in a matter of DAYS, and would have except that 3 days after our purchase the buyer’s financing was shut down because of the COVID pandemic.   Here are take aways as to how I see “wholesale” transactions (flipping properties) in the future 

1. Most profitable transaction will be cash purchases followed by sales

2. Flipping contracts won’t exist - it will be replaced by “wholesaler” obtaining an OPTION to purchase at a set price and selling the option.

3. Commercial real estate won’t be affected by these changes and will continue operating a it always has 

4. It will require a LOT of capital to do this as a business

5. Consumer laws will be passed making flipping or wholesaling homeowner property nearly impossible.  

Interested to know your thoughts….

 We can come up with all kinds of definitions of what wholesaling is and isn't.  I think we all know what it means when talking about "wholesaling". They want to get rid of people posing to be cash buyers (when they don't have any means to purchase) and locking sellers under a contract to resell.  

I spoke to the CEO of a publicly traded brokerage recently about NAR and wholesaling to see if its something on his radar. His immediate response is they're coming down on wholesaling state by state and there will be legislation everywhere real soon.

That said, SC was the first state to really come down hard. Yet people are still doing wholesaling in SC.  There are closing attorneys still doing them, but they won't reveal who as they don't want to draw attention.  There will always be ways to do deals, and people will always do them until you can't that way anymore. 

I know people that will go on a cash appointment and pull a bait and switch and become the Agent for them.  Its an easy convo if you tell them they'll just charge the buyer (just like a wholesaler would charge the buyer a net fee).

I have a friend who will even do a novation on a listing agreement, where he found a buyer that will pay significantly more than what the seller wants to net, and novate the listing agreement to make the commission 10%, 15%, ect to reflect what percentage the pay out from what the buyer will pay.

Theres a million ways to do a deal.

 Net listings are illegal when operating with a license. Wholesaling is a net listing without a license, and on top of that the wholesaler poses as a cash buyer. 

I think the lack of transparency, operating without a license, and taking advantage of people is the issue. 

[John Ma]

Quote from @Alan Asriants:

Quote from @John Ma:

Quote from @Don Konipol:

Since nobody has posted on this thread for almost one month, I will provide some of my personal thoughts.

If by wholesaling we actually mean “flipping”, that is buying or tying up a property and then almost immediately reselling that property for a profit, then wholesaling will NEVER be dead as long as we have even a semblance of a capitalist system.  ‘Wholesaling” may not be as prevalent as it is today; may not be pushed by countless gurus; may not be in the same form as we know it.  But people will buy properties at a below market price and “flip” them for profit without changing the property in any way.  Here’s an example of what I’m talking about; in 2020 my partner and I purchased a 9,965 square foot office/warehouse which had just been vacated by the tenant, for $625,000.  We immediately placed it on the market, and within 7 months had sold it for $1,050,000.  Yes, we had information before the purchase NOT available to the general public.  If this was a publicly traded security we’d be guilty of trading on inside information, etc., but that does not apply to real property transactions.  Further ,we could have “flipped” the property to the same buyer at almost the same price in a matter of DAYS, and would have except that 3 days after our purchase the buyer’s financing was shut down because of the COVID pandemic.   Here are take aways as to how I see “wholesale” transactions (flipping properties) in the future 

1. Most profitable transaction will be cash purchases followed by sales

2. Flipping contracts won’t exist - it will be replaced by “wholesaler” obtaining an OPTION to purchase at a set price and selling the option.

3. Commercial real estate won’t be affected by these changes and will continue operating a it always has 

4. It will require a LOT of capital to do this as a business

5. Consumer laws will be passed making flipping or wholesaling homeowner property nearly impossible.  

Interested to know your thoughts….

 We can come up with all kinds of definitions of what wholesaling is and isn't.  I think we all know what it means when talking about "wholesaling". They want to get rid of people posing to be cash buyers (when they don't have any means to purchase) and locking sellers under a contract to resell.  

I spoke to the CEO of a publicly traded brokerage recently about NAR and wholesaling to see if its something on his radar. His immediate response is they're coming down on wholesaling state by state and there will be legislation everywhere real soon.

That said, SC was the first state to really come down hard. Yet people are still doing wholesaling in SC.  There are closing attorneys still doing them, but they won't reveal who as they don't want to draw attention.  There will always be ways to do deals, and people will always do them until you can't that way anymore. 

I know people that will go on a cash appointment and pull a bait and switch and become the Agent for them.  Its an easy convo if you tell them they'll just charge the buyer (just like a wholesaler would charge the buyer a net fee).

I have a friend who will even do a novation on a listing agreement, where he found a buyer that will pay significantly more than what the seller wants to net, and novate the listing agreement to make the commission 10%, 15%, ect to reflect what percentage the pay out from what the buyer will pay.

Theres a million ways to do a deal.

 Net listings are illegal when operating with a license. Wholesaling is a net listing without a license, and on top of that the wholesaler poses as a cash buyer. 

I think the lack of transparency, operating without a license, and taking advantage of people is the issue. 

 There are a million ways to do a deal.

[Eric N.]

Quote from @Alan Asriants:

Quote from @John Ma:

Quote from @Don Konipol:

Since nobody has posted on this thread for almost one month, I will provide some of my personal thoughts.

If by wholesaling we actually mean “flipping”, that is buying or tying up a property and then almost immediately reselling that property for a profit, then wholesaling will NEVER be dead as long as we have even a semblance of a capitalist system.  ‘Wholesaling” may not be as prevalent as it is today; may not be pushed by countless gurus; may not be in the same form as we know it.  But people will buy properties at a below market price and “flip” them for profit without changing the property in any way.  Here’s an example of what I’m talking about; in 2020 my partner and I purchased a 9,965 square foot office/warehouse which had just been vacated by the tenant, for $625,000.  We immediately placed it on the market, and within 7 months had sold it for $1,050,000.  Yes, we had information before the purchase NOT available to the general public.  If this was a publicly traded security we’d be guilty of trading on inside information, etc., but that does not apply to real property transactions.  Further ,we could have “flipped” the property to the same buyer at almost the same price in a matter of DAYS, and would have except that 3 days after our purchase the buyer’s financing was shut down because of the COVID pandemic.   Here are take aways as to how I see “wholesale” transactions (flipping properties) in the future 

1. Most profitable transaction will be cash purchases followed by sales

2. Flipping contracts won’t exist - it will be replaced by “wholesaler” obtaining an OPTION to purchase at a set price and selling the option.

3. Commercial real estate won’t be affected by these changes and will continue operating a it always has 

4. It will require a LOT of capital to do this as a business

5. Consumer laws will be passed making flipping or wholesaling homeowner property nearly impossible.  

Interested to know your thoughts….

 We can come up with all kinds of definitions of what wholesaling is and isn't.  I think we all know what it means when talking about "wholesaling". They want to get rid of people posing to be cash buyers (when they don't have any means to purchase) and locking sellers under a contract to resell.  

I spoke to the CEO of a publicly traded brokerage recently about NAR and wholesaling to see if its something on his radar. His immediate response is they're coming down on wholesaling state by state and there will be legislation everywhere real soon.

That said, SC was the first state to really come down hard. Yet people are still doing wholesaling in SC.  There are closing attorneys still doing them, but they won't reveal who as they don't want to draw attention.  There will always be ways to do deals, and people will always do them until you can't that way anymore. 

I know people that will go on a cash appointment and pull a bait and switch and become the Agent for them.  Its an easy convo if you tell them they'll just charge the buyer (just like a wholesaler would charge the buyer a net fee).

I have a friend who will even do a novation on a listing agreement, where he found a buyer that will pay significantly more than what the seller wants to net, and novate the listing agreement to make the commission 10%, 15%, ect to reflect what percentage the pay out from what the buyer will pay.

Theres a million ways to do a deal.

 Net listings are illegal when operating with a license. Wholesaling is a net listing without a license, and on top of that the wholesaler poses as a cash buyer. 

I think the lack of transparency, operating without a license, and taking advantage of people is the issue. 

 Hi Jerryll. I trust your opinion on matters related to wholesaling and real estate investment. You are not a hater, you don't have a hidden agenda (go gobble up all transactions in the market, while pretending to be crying crocodile tears out of care for "victimized" sellers). On top of it you are aware of laws and regulations, you are ethical wholesaler who is honest and transparent with sellers. In short , you don't BS and are not here to gaslight gullible newbies, and that's extremely important. 

So, I want to ask your opinion about Novations. Jerry Norton is one of the major players in the industry who does a lot of Novations. He teaches wholesalers to put a house under contract, with a right to market/gauge interest online and in MLS. It's essentially (to my understanding) net selling agreement, between Principal (Investor) and Seller, to be Novated when third party/end buyer comes into picture. I don't do nationwide deals and Novation is not something I am focusing on (my deals are strictly for me to buy, fix and flip or reassign to other investor for a fixed fee). But I am curious now: is Jerry Norton doing something illegal and teaching his students to engage in illegal practices? Or, is there an exception to state imposed restrictions, a loophole that he exploits to conduct these transactions legally? If it's completely illegal, how can he get away with it, running videos on Youtube and teaching thousands of people to do it? Looking forward to getting your valuable feedback!

[Eric N.]

Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:

Y'all still love to crap on wholesaling I see.

It is still beyond me to go to a wholesaling forum where people are supposed to help, educate learn, and teach, instead you just to call wholesalers frauds, adding no value and or everything else said.

I know for a fact that this is not true as we have been honest, and transparent upfront and the seller had no other way out then wholesale it and after explaining it to them even when given the option fo rus buying it in cash they decided to give wholesaling a try.

The takeaway is this.

You are not the seller, who the hell are you to decide for the seller that it is not for them?

People, why go to a wholesaling group where people want to wholesale and stroke each other's ego, about how wholesalers are dirt?

It is like joining a vegan club and crap on vegans because people are meant to eat meat. WHAT IS THE POINT?!

Do you really not see how flat-out STOOOPID this is?

Sheesh guys. Just stop!

GO from the Wholesale haters anonymously club. Meet once a week, hell go 2ce a week. rent a hotel conference room and go have fun down talking wholesaling and wholesalers. Just don't do it here. So not the place.

wow!

just sad.

part of the Problem Jerryll its simply Illegal the way most do it.. I just took 5 hours of my CA Brokers CE and there was a whole page on unlicensed activity and EP ( equity purchasers) fines are stiff and on the EP the sellers have a 2 year right of redemption.. But of course folks dont actually read the laws ..  I think thats the major issue and with state after state finally clarifying and clearly denoting that bringing Buyer and Seller together for comp is brokering and a license is required.. then you get into disclosures and such like CA has.. its a dying method.. Although I still close many deals with wholesalers little fee's attached to them.. So its not you  its the states.

 And I get that.

And that is not at all what I am talking about.

Reread this entire rant about wholesaling.

One (small ) part is about the legalities of wholesaling.

And a huge part is just crapping on wholesaling and wholesalers based on personal opinions that show how friggin daft most of responders are. If wholesaling was about intelligence most of you would fail miserably. The entire premise of this entire rant is just dumb,  as in stupid, as in no effort of using actual intelligence.

Those are 2 entirely different topics.

I am not going to argue or debate this boring age-old debate of the ethics of wholesaling much like I am not going to debate whether or not guns are evil. 

It is a tool.

I find it pathetic that most of will try to find ANY reason to crap on wholesaling even when the main topic was not even dealing with it. 

Get it?

Anyway, I should never have gotten myself involved because I am legitimately allergic to stupidity and ignorance.

I get hives!

So I am out.

Take my advice, everyone. Go start a Wholesale Haters Anonymous club and keep stocking each other's egos.

pathetic

And BTW?

If most people do wholesaling wrong and illegally, for crap's sake then educate the masses on how to do it right. Like I am doing.

Instead what good does crapping on wholesalers do?

No, really.

Tell me.

What good is this entire BS thread do .. to ANYONE?

Is this just a quest for "likes" and votes? Is this a popularity contest to you all?

Do something productive rather than this. I wish I had y'all's kind of time on my hands to waste it on absolute mind-numbing stupidity.

 Most haters (not pointing a finger at anyone in particular, just generally speaking) are simply angry and greedy as F. They want to gobble up all transactions in the market for their own greedy, malicious, hateful, profiteering aims. They couldn't care less about sellers. And they pontificate as Great Poobahs and ethics preachers to make themselves look good in the eyes of the public (PR tactics to gaslight and fool the gullible). It is counterproductive, does no good and does not deter anyone from wholesaling. If anything, it just creates anger and resentment, and is akin to "Guns are Evil" rhetoric, as you accurately pointed out. I don't blame you for leaving this thread for good. It's totally stupid and pointless to engage in arguments with greedy , angry, malicious BS-ers LOL

Thank you for creating GrumpyHare platform and teaching wholesalers how to properly do the business and improve their SEO rankings. You rock, man! 

[Jerryll Noorden]

Quote from @Eric N.:

Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:

Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:

Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:

Y'all still love to crap on wholesaling I see.

It is still beyond me to go to a wholesaling forum where people are supposed to help, educate learn, and teach, instead you just to call wholesalers frauds, adding no value and or everything else said.

I know for a fact that this is not true as we have been honest, and transparent upfront and the seller had no other way out then wholesale it and after explaining it to them even when given the option fo rus buying it in cash they decided to give wholesaling a try.

The takeaway is this.

You are not the seller, who the hell are you to decide for the seller that it is not for them?

People, why go to a wholesaling group where people want to wholesale and stroke each other's ego, about how wholesalers are dirt?

It is like joining a vegan club and crap on vegans because people are meant to eat meat. WHAT IS THE POINT?!

Do you really not see how flat-out STOOOPID this is?

Sheesh guys. Just stop!

GO from the Wholesale haters anonymously club. Meet once a week, hell go 2ce a week. rent a hotel conference room and go have fun down talking wholesaling and wholesalers. Just don't do it here. So not the place.

wow!

just sad.

part of the Problem Jerryll its simply Illegal the way most do it.. I just took 5 hours of my CA Brokers CE and there was a whole page on unlicensed activity and EP ( equity purchasers) fines are stiff and on the EP the sellers have a 2 year right of redemption.. But of course folks dont actually read the laws ..  I think thats the major issue and with state after state finally clarifying and clearly denoting that bringing Buyer and Seller together for comp is brokering and a license is required.. then you get into disclosures and such like CA has.. its a dying method.. Although I still close many deals with wholesalers little fee's attached to them.. So its not you  its the states.

 And I get that.

And that is not at all what I am talking about.

Reread this entire rant about wholesaling.

One (small ) part is about the legalities of wholesaling.

And a huge part is just crapping on wholesaling and wholesalers based on personal opinions that show how friggin daft most of responders are. If wholesaling was about intelligence most of you would fail miserably. The entire premise of this entire rant is just dumb,  as in stupid, as in no effort of using actual intelligence.

Those are 2 entirely different topics.

I am not going to argue or debate this boring age-old debate of the ethics of wholesaling much like I am not going to debate whether or not guns are evil. 

It is a tool.

I find it pathetic that most of will try to find ANY reason to crap on wholesaling even when the main topic was not even dealing with it. 

Get it?

Anyway, I should never have gotten myself involved because I am legitimately allergic to stupidity and ignorance.

I get hives!

So I am out.

Take my advice, everyone. Go start a Wholesale Haters Anonymous club and keep stocking each other's egos.

pathetic

And BTW?

If most people do wholesaling wrong and illegally, for crap's sake then educate the masses on how to do it right. Like I am doing.

Instead what good does crapping on wholesalers do?

No, really.

Tell me.

What good is this entire BS thread do .. to ANYONE?

Is this just a quest for "likes" and votes? Is this a popularity contest to you all?

Do something productive rather than this. I wish I had y'all's kind of time on my hands to waste it on absolute mind-numbing stupidity.

 Most haters (not pointing a finger at anyone in particular, just generally speaking) are simply angry and greedy as F. They want to gobble up all transactions in the market for their own greedy, malicious, hateful, profiteering aims. They couldn't care less about sellers. And they pontificate as Great Poobahs and ethics preachers to make themselves look good in the eyes of the public (PR tactics to gaslight and fool the gullible). It is counterproductive, does no good and does not deter anyone from wholesaling. If anything, it just creates anger and resentment, and is akin to "Guns are Evil" rhetoric, as you accurately pointed out. I don't blame you for leaving this thread for good. It's totally stupid and pointless to engage in arguments with greedy , angry, malicious BS-ers LOL

Thank you for creating GrumpyHare platform and teaching wholesalers how to properly do the business and improve their SEO rankings. You rock, man! 

 Exactly.

What is the point of being on a wholesaling forum where the entire point is to advocate wholesaling, to further it, and then learn to collaborate when they jump on the first opportunity to constantly bash it?

And then to make this a sticky. Just pointless.