My lead generation sucks, I need help

Christian Signorino · 2023-11-15T09:03:01-08:00

Hello BP fam, I hope everyone is well.To keep a long story short, I'm struggling getting a consistent steady stream of deals coming in. I have tried many different strategies to find potential investment properties, but they seem to have their faults.Driving for Dollars- Everyone mentions this is a beginners best friend. Driving around and finding distressed properties is how to get the best list of the most motivated sellers, and is one of the least competitive lists to target. All it takes is time, and starting out you have plenty of it. It sounds perfect, but there are a few things about scaling it:1) There is a set amount of properties to work with. There are only so many ugly houses in one area before you start running into the same ones. If I drove around and covered my entire service area once, why would I do it again unless 5 years has passed? 2) It takes forever to find houses. I average finding about 100 houses/12 hours of driving. Sometimes I have really good days where I find 30 houses in an hour or I drive around for 3 hours and find only 5. I've tried automating this and hiring out, which seemed like it could have been promising.Pulling Lists- I've tried pulling lists before, but it seems like everyone is targeting the same lists. Probate, tax liens, pre-foreclosure, expired listings, etc. In the past, I've pulled lists of thousands of properties, and had them skip traced, specifically through Propstream, and most of the information came back with wrong numbers and other wrong information, like 60% of it. My cold caller even said it was the worst data he's ever seen in 3 years. I feel like I must have done something wrong and want to try again.Is it Propstream as the skiptracer that's the problem? With the wrong skiptracing info from Propstream, I'm wondering how accurate all the info on Propstream is in general now. Or, is this even more of a numbers game than I'm thinking and really need to call 10,000 leads to get one deal. I just got Batchleads and will use them for information and skiptracing to see if that might be better.Online Ads- I've used online ads in the past as well, and I used to feel like this could be the most useful lead generation technique as everything is inbound. People clicked your ad because they want to sell their house for cash, they're already interested. No list building, no cold outreach, just warm leads, this sounds perfect. Except it's expensive. I know it will pay for itself, and then some, but I need to know it'll work.In the past when I did this, I created about 10 different ads on facebook and connected the ads to a cash offer form on my website, ran them, found the best preforming one and scaled it and deleted the others. I spent $140 in one week, $20/day. I got about 120 people total to my cash offer form and not single person filled it out. These people clicked on an ad with a picture of an ugly house and said "Does your house look like this? We'll buy it!" and didn't fill out the cash offer form. I was so confused, so I stopped the campaign. I looked into Google PPC ads and Performance max ads, but after spending hours creating my ad, it was going to cost about $65/day to be competitive in my area. I am working with a limited budget, around $800/month, until I get my first deal. I'm a bartender, so I could increase my budget by picking up a few extra shifts a month, but this will cost time. I guess I just need some guidance. I'm looking for a lead generation technique that will land me my first deal and is scalable. What am I doing wrong, what could I do better, what are some things I could try?

Rick H.

Lender · Greater LA/Orange County area, CA · Member since 2012 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes

2y

Trying to operate as a “lone wolf” enterprise is hard enough.

I have no idea how much skill you have or amount of training.
Be very clear: you are in the opportunity business and your focus should be on hunting for EQUITY.

Houses don’t care; people do! Google is “active intent” and unlikely to yield people that you should be targeting:

These people are those with big problems that they are either not capable or unwilling to solve that you are skilled at resolving.

Go for the obvious: foreclosure, defaulted taxes and tired landlords, IN THAT ORDER.

Leave probate and title opportunities for later when you can handle longer timelines between paydays.

3 Reply

Jerryll Noorden

Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes

2y

It is very sinple.

Nothing can target motivated selelrs. NOTHING can. The ONLY way to get in touch with them is when THEY find YOU!

Everyone thinks that foreclosures, tax liens or ANY reason to be in distress implies motivation. That is 100% bollocks!

If all these people on these lists were motivated why does it take you 3000 mailers calls or texts to get you one contract signed?

It is all a lie!

Stop doing these things and just use common sense and the answer is extremely easy. Focus on credibility, focus on value and construct an accurate avatar of what a motivated seller is, and once you do this the answers will be right in front of you.

2 Reply

Jose JacobPro Member

Investor · 11040 · Member since 2019 · 186 posts · 111 votes

2y

Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:

It is very sinple.

Nothing can target motivated selelrs. NOTHING can. The ONLY way to get in touch with them is when THEY find YOU!

Everyone thinks that foreclosures, tax liens or ANY reason to be in distress implies motivation. That is 100% bollocks!

If all these people on these lists were motivated why does it take you 3000 mailers calls or texts to get you one contract signed?

It is all a lie!

Stop doing these things and just use common sense and the answer is extremely easy. Focus on credibility, focus on value and construct an accurate avatar of what a motivated seller is, and once you do this the answers will be right in front of you.

He is 100% right. People's attitude changed how they do business in this internet world. Who owns a home phone anymore ? Who picks up the phone calls anymore (unless it is their family). Sellers get ton of junk mails and those goes to trash in one sec. Put yourself in their shoes. How many junk mails you get a day and how many of them you go through ?

What you do if you want to find out the near by best restaurant ? you go to GOOOOOOOOOOGLE. And how many restaurant mails you get a week... so many right ? Did you save any ? Nope. That is what i meant. People's way of doing business changed. You need to be in Google to be find when sellers looking for you.

Good Luck

718-200-6100

3 Reply

Josh Wagner

Wholesaler · NC · Member since 2022 · 14 posts · 18 votes

2y

We built our business solely off of cold calling Driving For Dollars leads using Deal Machine. We only stopped doing that last year because we were tired of driving for nearly 4 years straight lol.

But it works. I am living proof. The problem is not your data, the problem is your marketing efforts. Anyone can pull a list or drive for a list, hit it one time, and consider it "exhausted." But the truth is that the data is nowhere near exhausted. You just don't have the proper insight into your data to determine how to get in touch with your prospects.

We still cold call for 100% of our deals today, and will do about $1M in assignment fees this year. 100% of our deals come from manually pulling our own data. And I'd venture to say that 90-95% of all those deals would qualify as great Driving For Dollars leads based on their physically distressed appearance.

For those who tell you the only way to wholesale today is to do it with PPC, I would say that's highly incorrect. Sellers don't need to find you first. If you master the ability of finding sellers faster than your competitors when their problems arise, you will consistently win deals.

8 Reply

Cody Rudolph

Investor · Bentonville, AR · Member since 2023 · 3 posts · 5 votes

2y

I think you have a few options.

1. You can keep doing the solo thing and do a ridiculous number of reps to turn over a deal. Eventually, it will happen, but you'll have to grind like a madman.

2. Go the SEO route and spend the next 6-12 months on keyword research, content, and driving backlinks to your website. At that point, you'll have a digital asset in the right place (Google Page 1) at the right time (when someone desperate is looking for help).

3. Roll money into paid ads on Facebook or YouTube. But you'll have to get creative to be competitive (no copy/paste ads and images). You'll be competing against agencies working for other investors or big firms.

4. Stop going after homeowners and start "shaking hands and kissing babies," as my old man used to call it. Politics. Networking. Get into rooms or online spaces with agents, investors, lenders, business owners, landlords, and real estate developers---talk to them, remember their names, and go out for drinks. Eventually, you'll catch wind of a jv opportunity, or someone will clue you in on a deal they need help with.

You said you're a bartender? Aren't you talking/listening to people every day? Play to your strengths. It seems to me you're uniquely suited to networking.

Good luck out there!

3 Reply

Jose JacobPro Member

Investor · 11040 · Member since 2019 · 186 posts · 111 votes

2y

Quote from @Josh Wagner:

We built our business solely off of cold calling Driving For Dollars leads using Deal Machine. We only stopped doing that last year because we were tired of driving for nearly 4 years straight lol.

But it works. I am living proof. The problem is not your data, the problem is your marketing efforts. Anyone can pull a list or drive for a list, hit it one time, and consider it "exhausted." But the truth is that the data is nowhere near exhausted. You just don't have the proper insight into your data to determine how to get in touch with your prospects.

We still cold call for 100% of our deals today, and will do about $1M in assignment fees this year. 100% of our deals come from manually pulling our own data. And I'd venture to say that 90-95% of all those deals would qualify as great Driving For Dollars leads based on their physically distressed appearance.

For those who tell you the only way to wholesale today is to do it with PPC, I would say that's highly incorrect. Sellers don't need to find you first. If you master the ability of finding sellers faster than your competitors when their problems arise, you will consistently win deals.

Hello Josh,

You said you use dealmachine to drive for dollars and cold call 100% of your leads. At the end, you mentioned that you were tired of driving for almost 4 years. Yes. Thats where SEO marketing comes in. Once you are on the first page of google, you are there for ever after spending a little effort. You wont get tired after 4 years. You get tired after while if you follow traditional method. Thats the whole point and you dont get tired if sellers are looking for you on google.

BTW I use deal machine too.

Good Luck.

718-200-6100

1 Reply

Rick H.

Lender · Greater LA/Orange County area, CA · Member since 2012 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes

2y

All good points. I started investing in real estate in 1978.
Trying to classify “all distress is bollocks” is misleading.

I’ve done thousands of deals and built a great life.
In my experience and what I taught during my speaking days (including BP national event) is that most people try to market to too many leads. I’ve found it much more effective to focus on a small number of high-targeted niche market situations.

Seriously, pick six (6) that represent opportunities that you can profitably create value and resolve one or more problems.
Perfect storms are good example: defaulted, missing or deceased owner(s), alcoholic heirs, code violations, etc.; all in one property concurrently! This is just an exemplar list, of course.
The idea is to limit your targets to just a few with multiple nasty problems that your principals recognize are bigger than they can deal with, hence ripe for you to acquire or control.
LIMIT YOUR PROSPECTS AND GO DEEP.

3 Reply

Beth Bannor

Member since 2021 · 41 posts · 15 votes

2y

I have a couple of suggestions:

1- Someone mentioned networking which is a great suggestion. Have you been to some of your local REI meetups?

2- Have you created some kind of online presence so people can look you up to see if you are a legit business? This can be a website, google business profile, linkedin, or all of the above. Showing credibility is really important in gaining trust.

1 Reply

Jose JacobPro Member

Investor · 11040 · Member since 2019 · 186 posts · 111 votes

2y

Quote from @Rick H.:

All good points. I started investing in real estate in 1978.
Trying to classify “all distress is bollocks” is misleading.

I’ve done thousands of deals and built a great life.
In my experience and what I taught during my speaking days (including BP national event) is that most people try to market to too many leads. I’ve found it much more effective to focus on a small number of high-targeted niche market situations.

Seriously, pick six (6) that represent opportunities that you can profitably create value and resolve one or more problems.
Perfect storms are good example: defaulted, missing or deceased owner(s), alcoholic heirs, code violations, etc.; all in one property concurrently! This is just an exemplar list, of course.
The idea is to limit your targets to just a few with multiple nasty problems that your principals recognize are bigger than they can deal with, hence ripe for you to acquire or control.
LIMIT YOUR PROSPECTS AND GO DEEP.

Rick,

How do you search for these criteria people you mentioned. Can you pls help

718-200-6100

0 Reply

Jerryll Noorden

Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes

2y

Quote from @Rick H.:

All good points. I started investing in real estate in 1978.
Trying to classify “all distress is bollocks” is misleading.

I’ve done thousands of deals and built a great life.
In my experience and what I taught during my speaking days (including BP national event) is that most people try to market to too many leads. I’ve found it much more effective to focus on a small number of high-targeted niche market situations.

Seriously, pick six (6) that represent opportunities that you can profitably create value and resolve one or more problems.
Perfect storms are good example: defaulted, missing or deceased owner(s), alcoholic heirs, code violations, etc.; all in one property concurrently! This is just an exemplar list, of course.
The idea is to limit your targets to just a few with multiple nasty problems that your principals recognize are bigger than they can deal with, hence ripe for you to acquire or control.
LIMIT YOUR PROSPECTS AND GO DEEP.

Actually, that is not misleading at all.

What I said is extremely accurate. And you really should be aware of some of the things you said that are just not right...

First.

How many mailers do you need to send to any distressed list, to get a deal? 1000, 2000, 3000?

Let's take 1000.

So you need to send 1000 mailers to get one deal yes? That is a 0.1% success rate. This means 99.9% of the people on distressed lists, will say "no" to you.

Thus, 99.9% of people in some sort of distress will NOT BE MOTIVATED. This is not an opinion. This is factually accurate data.

So how exactly am I misleading when I tell you, "Thinking that because someone is in distress they are motivated to sell IS bollocks", is as I said, extremely accurate. Know the difference between opinion and data.

You think that:

Foreclosure --> motivated --> deal

Absentee owner --> motivated --> deal

Probate --> motivated --> deal

But that is not true.

Here is what is more accurate:

Foreclosure + motivated = Potential deal

Absentee owner + motivated = Potential deal

Probate + motivated = Potential deal

Distress does NOT imply motivation. 99.9% of the time, it doesn't!

Now, please pay close attention.

I quote:

I’ve done thousands of deals and built a great life.
In my experience and what I taught during my speaking days (including BP national event) is that most people try to market to too many leads. I’ve found it much more effective to focus on a small number of high-targeted niche market situations.

Again I will use logic and common sense to show you.

You are saying "limit your prospects and go deep". Please everyone .. do NOT do this

Let me visualize what you are telling others to do.

So logically, this doesn't make sense. Now, add to this what I have just proven to you. You can't target motivated sellers, and all these lists you go after that are "distressed homeowners" have a 99.9% probability they are NOT motivated. so you are SERIOUSLY making it DOUBLE harder for yourself to succeed.

So not only are you telling people to zoom in on a much smaller audience, instead of going after the larger motivated smaller audience, but also, that smaller audience has a 0.1% chance they are motivated.

Data. Vs. Opinion.
Data always wins.

Understand this my friend:

I don't need to make 1000 deals to make a few million a year. I do about 10 to 20 deals to make $1M. Without having to chase leads, without having to "narrow down" on leads, without being yelled at.

Work smarter, not harder!

Do what you all want. Up to you, but no matter what you decide to do, facts remain truth and opinion is just that, an opinion. Want predictable efficient results? Look for DATA! Not someone's personal opinion.

1 Reply

Joe S.Pro Member

Investor · San Antonio · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes

2y

Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:

Quote from @Rick H.:

All good points. I started investing in real estate in 1978.
Trying to classify “all distress is bollocks” is misleading.

I’ve done thousands of deals and built a great life.
In my experience and what I taught during my speaking days (including BP national event) is that most people try to market to too many leads. I’ve found it much more effective to focus on a small number of high-targeted niche market situations.

Seriously, pick six (6) that represent opportunities that you can profitably create value and resolve one or more problems.
Perfect storms are good example: defaulted, missing or deceased owner(s), alcoholic heirs, code violations, etc.; all in one property concurrently! This is just an exemplar list, of course.
The idea is to limit your targets to just a few with multiple nasty problems that your principals recognize are bigger than they can deal with, hence ripe for you to acquire or control.
LIMIT YOUR PROSPECTS AND GO DEEP.

Actually, that is not misleading at all.

What I said is extremely accurate. And you really should be aware of some of the things you said that are just not right...

First.

How many mailers do you need to send to any distressed list, to get a deal? 1000, 2000, 3000?

Let's take 1000.

So you need to send 1000 mailers to get one deal yes? That is a 0.1% success rate. This means 99.9% of the people on distressed lists, will say "no" to you.

Thus, 99.9% of people in some sort of distress will NOT BE MOTIVATED. This is not an opinion. This is factually accurate data.

So how exactly am I misleading when I tell you, "Thinking that because someone is in distress they are motivated to sell IS bollocks", is as I said, extremely accurate. Know the difference between opinion and data.

You think that:

Foreclosure --> motivated --> deal

Absentee owner --> motivated --> deal

Probate --> motivated --> deal

But that is not true.

Here is what is more accurate:

Foreclosure + motivated = Potential deal

Absentee owner + motivated = Potential deal

Probate + motivated = Potential deal

Distress does NOT imply motivation. 99.9% of the time, it doesn't!

Now, please pay close attention.

I quote:

I’ve done thousands of deals and built a great life.
In my experience and what I taught during my speaking days (including BP national event) is that most people try to market to too many leads. I’ve found it much more effective to focus on a small number of high-targeted niche market situations.

Again I will use logic and common sense to show you.

You are saying "limit your prospects and go deep". Please everyone .. do NOT do this

Let me visualize what you are telling others to do.

So logically, this doesn't make sense. Now, add to this what I have just proven to you. You can't target motivated sellers, and all these lists you go after that are "distressed homeowners" have a 99.9% probability they are NOT motivated. so you are SERIOUSLY making it DOUBLE harder for yourself to succeed.

So not only are you telling people to zoom in on a much smaller audience, instead of going after the larger motivated smaller audience, but also, that smaller audience has a 0.1% chance they are motivated.

Data. Vs. Opinion.
Data always wins.

Understand this my friend:

I don't need to make 1000 deals to make a few million a year. I do about 10 to 20 deals to make $1M. Without having to chase leads, without having to "narrow down" on leads, without being yelled at.

Work smarter, not harder!

Do what you all want. Up to you, but no matter what you decide to do, facts remain truth and opinion is just that, an opinion. Want predictable efficient results? Look for DATA! Not someone's personal opinion.

Congratulations if you really get 10 to 20 deals a year for $1 million profit.
On almost any given search, there are page, after page, after page of Investor websites so obviously, they can’t all be number one.

1 Reply

Jerryll Noorden

Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes

2y

Quote from @Joe S.:

Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:

Quote from @Rick H.:

All good points. I started investing in real estate in 1978.
Trying to classify “all distress is bollocks” is misleading.

I’ve done thousands of deals and built a great life.
In my experience and what I taught during my speaking days (including BP national event) is that most people try to market to too many leads. I’ve found it much more effective to focus on a small number of high-targeted niche market situations.

Seriously, pick six (6) that represent opportunities that you can profitably create value and resolve one or more problems.
Perfect storms are good example: defaulted, missing or deceased owner(s), alcoholic heirs, code violations, etc.; all in one property concurrently! This is just an exemplar list, of course.
The idea is to limit your targets to just a few with multiple nasty problems that your principals recognize are bigger than they can deal with, hence ripe for you to acquire or control.
LIMIT YOUR PROSPECTS AND GO DEEP.

Actually, that is not misleading at all.

What I said is extremely accurate. And you really should be aware of some of the things you said that are just not right...

First.

How many mailers do you need to send to any distressed list, to get a deal? 1000, 2000, 3000?

Let's take 1000.

So you need to send 1000 mailers to get one deal yes? That is a 0.1% success rate. This means 99.9% of the people on distressed lists, will say "no" to you.

Thus, 99.9% of people in some sort of distress will NOT BE MOTIVATED. This is not an opinion. This is factually accurate data.

So how exactly am I misleading when I tell you, "Thinking that because someone is in distress they are motivated to sell IS bollocks", is as I said, extremely accurate. Know the difference between opinion and data.

You think that:

Foreclosure --> motivated --> deal

Absentee owner --> motivated --> deal

Probate --> motivated --> deal

But that is not true.

Here is what is more accurate:

Foreclosure + motivated = Potential deal

Absentee owner + motivated = Potential deal

Probate + motivated = Potential deal

Distress does NOT imply motivation. 99.9% of the time, it doesn't!

Now, please pay close attention.

I quote:

I’ve done thousands of deals and built a great life.
In my experience and what I taught during my speaking days (including BP national event) is that most people try to market to too many leads. I’ve found it much more effective to focus on a small number of high-targeted niche market situations.

Again I will use logic and common sense to show you.

You are saying "limit your prospects and go deep". Please everyone .. do NOT do this

Let me visualize what you are telling others to do.

So logically, this doesn't make sense. Now, add to this what I have just proven to you. You can't target motivated sellers, and all these lists you go after that are "distressed homeowners" have a 99.9% probability they are NOT motivated. so you are SERIOUSLY making it DOUBLE harder for yourself to succeed.

So not only are you telling people to zoom in on a much smaller audience, instead of going after the larger motivated smaller audience, but also, that smaller audience has a 0.1% chance they are motivated.

Data. Vs. Opinion.
Data always wins.

Understand this my friend:

I don't need to make 1000 deals to make a few million a year. I do about 10 to 20 deals to make $1M. Without having to chase leads, without having to "narrow down" on leads, without being yelled at.

Work smarter, not harder!

Do what you all want. Up to you, but no matter what you decide to do, facts remain truth and opinion is just that, an opinion. Want predictable efficient results? Look for DATA! Not someone's personal opinion.

Congratulations if you really get 10 to 20 deals a year for $1 million profit.
On almost any given search, there are page, after page, after page of Investor websites so obviously, they can’t all be number one.

No they can't. Not everyone can be the best. Not everyone can win, not everyone gets the girl.

But am I supposed to apologize for having a skill? Are you not going to even try because there can only be one (which is not even the case)

That doesn't change the fact that what I am saying is correct.

Do you realize this entire topic has nothing to do with any of this?

the ONLY thing it has to do with is that most of you do cold calling texting and whatever else you are doing to lists and this gets you a 0.1% success rate.

That is the issue. No matter how good I am how lucky I am how much only 1 person can rank #1, doesn't make your success rate not 0.1% doing the wrong stuff, right? The fact that not everyone can rank #1 has NOTHING to do why you all defend strategies that have less than a 0.1% success rate.

As I said. I just give you data. Why is everyone arguing or defending opinions? But does everyone come at me defending wrong strategies with opinions when the data.. YOUR OWN DATA says you are wrong.

Either way. Do what ever it is you think is good. I will keep doing what the data says makes me millions.