Tenant with holding rent for repair

[Himateja Madala]

Hi All,

I own a rental property in Wellington managed by myself remotely from CA. I have been having a difficult time finding reasonable handyman in the area.

recently i had new tenant move in and she found some issues and listed they be fixed on the leasing agreement. I had a handy man come in and fix  the issues but she kept on adding to the list . Finally the contractor gave up on me unable to bear the drama.

Tenant is a drama queen.Now the tenant withholds part of the rent and she says she will get it fixed since i am not getting things done on time.

Is this even legal to do so. Can i evict her on this basis?

Should i let her with hold rent .In long term i believe this is not good practice

The issue is Patio screens are torn and need repair and i was looking for a handyman who can do this.Are patio screens mandatory repair  in Florida? what if my property didnt have patio screens.

[Bill B.]

If the patio screen are the only issue that’s a $50 and 1/2 hour problem. If that’s the end of it, let her fix it and move on. If it’s not the end send a “happy clause” 

You’re obviously not happy with the condition of my property I am willing to give you back your entire deposit or you are willing to accept the property in the condition it is today. 

You might want to look in to a PM. They may get enough extra rent to pay for their services. They’ll stop you from having to deal with this long distance. They’ll have a handyman on call that will fix the problem the day it occurs. You need a plan for when the ac or the water heater fails. You’re going to be paying for the tenants hotel room all of a sudden. 

[Ned J.]

No.... because the list will never end. This is a tenant that wants her dream home and for you to provide it.

My lease has provision that rent may not be withheld for repairs..... no unauthorized repair will be reimbursed etc etc

If its only the screen it can wait..... but it sounds like you did a lot more before that

This has Happy Clause written all over it. The unit was rented AS IS.... the only issues that will be repaired are safety and overall habitability. Not happy?..... I will let you out of the lease with no issues, full deposit etc.  Otherwise STFU...

[William Powell]

Some states allow for the tenant after they have given the landlord notice of repairs and they haven't been done to pay a contractor and deduct from the rent the contractor's payment. I think CA is one of those states. I have prohibited tenant repairs in my lease but you have to make sure you are being a good landlord and getting things repaired in a timely fashion. You need to lay eyes on this because some patios are designed poorly or very old and the screens will continue to pull loose. You may have to pay to install windows as a more permanent solution. Maybe the tenant loves to hang out under the patio and smoke or relax. Just my thoughts to make the phone calls go away. 

[William Powell]

This addition to the list thing needs to be addressed. I would inform the guest that the list is frozen at some point and any further desires can be submitted via letter and rent price will be discussed as well. Because Im renting to you at "nice safe house price" but "customized perfect house" has a different price per month.  I bet her tune changes when you talk about raising rents. 

[Richard F.]

Aloha,

There are a number of issues here. If the new Tenant "kept on adding to the list", and part of that list includes basic screen repairs, what was done, and by who, to prepare for the turnover? You should be moving someone into a unit that is actually ready to rent. You set yourself up for problems by not having it ready, and, it usually will cost you more to make repairs in an occupied unit.

How is she listing the issues on the leasing agreement, and how is she adding to it? Any condition report should be separate, and identified as and addendum to the main agreement. If you do not meet with the Tenant to inspect the property and document noted issues, there should be a clear deadline of when a complete list is provided to you. Anything after that is either a legitimate service call for a functional issue, that may, or may not be charged to the Tenant depending on the findings of the service provider; or a request for cosmetics which are flat denied...the unit was rented as is, where is. You will not be making "improvements" to suit the Tenant.

It appears Florida has specific requirements for a Tenant to be able to withhold rent and make repairs. Study up, and if she is following correct procedure, act accordingly. If not, offer the Happy Clause as suggested by other posters.

[Ray Hage]

@Himateja Madala I do have a handyman that may be willing to travel up that was to Wellington. He does great work and I have used him on several of my own properties. That being said, this tenant sounds like she is very nitpicky and basically just wants cheaper rent. 

If she wants everything to be perfect, it's probably just easier to let her out of the lease. If she is complaining about things that are at least somewhat serious, I'd fix them. I recently had a friend and fellow investor deal with this type of tenant. Eventually they agreed to end the lease and her paid her to leave. 

To sum up. If it is just the patio screen, you should definitely have it fixed but if she is going to add 10 more little annoying things next week, that's another problem. For the future, I would advise you keep your tenants on shorter term leases. I do most of my leases month to month. The good tenants stay for years and the bad ones don't last so long. 

[Theresa Harris]

You need to have a talk with the tenant and explain that they viewed the property and knew what it was like. They asked for some repairs and those were done. 

You can also give them the happy clause and tell her she is clearly not happy and is welcome to break the lease and move now without any penalty and give her a week to decide if she is moving out at the end of the month or not.  This should also help put you back in charge because any tenant that adds to the list of things to get repaired without talking to the landlord is a problem AND that the handyman did it without talking to you is another red flag.

When it comes to lease renewal, I would give this tenant notice that you are not renewing their lease.  

[Allan Smith]

I you have let the tenant become the alpha. She's running the show, you are a squirrel trying to get a nut.

you need to get the frame back from her.

effective managers follow company policy firmly. If it were me, she's getting an eviction letter for nonpayment. Next time, hire a mgr to screen tenants and train them. This begins the moment the property is listed. A big step in that process is going over the lease with the tenant. 

[Corby Goade]

Quote from @Himateja Madala:

Hi All,

I own a rental property in Wellington managed by myself remotely from CA. I have been having a difficult time finding reasonable handyman in the area.

recently i had new tenant move in and she found some issues and listed they be fixed on the leasing agreement. I had a handy man come in and fix  the issues but she kept on adding to the list . Finally the contractor gave up on me unable to bear the drama.

Tenant is a drama queen.Now the tenant withholds part of the rent and she says she will get it fixed since i am not getting things done on time.

Is this even legal to do so. Can i evict her on this basis?

Should i let her with hold rent .In long term i believe this is not good practice

The issue is Patio screens are torn and need repair and i was looking for a handyman who can do this.Are patio screens mandatory repair  in Florida? what if my property didnt have patio screens.

Just to be blunt- a novice investor can't properly manage a property from across the country in a town they have no connections.  I'm sure you did lots of due dilligence when you bought this property, but if you have a tenant running the show and not paying rent, it doesn't matter what your proforma said. Management is where the property either performs or fails. 

You have  professional tenant here who is taking advantage of your lack of experience. Yes- you should provide screens at any home- would you want to live in a home in Florida where you couldn't open the windows? When you get maintenance requests, come at them from the angle of "is this something that I'd do in my own home," rather than "what is the bare minimum the law requires." 

You could try to evict for non payment, but the fact that you arne't addressing repairs in a timely fashion will not likely work in your favor. 

All of this stress to avoid paying a property manager 9% has already created tons of stress, sucked up your time and on top of that, you're still not getting paid rent. A good property manager would have likely screened this tenant out of competition right away and had a better tenant in place, collected rent and had the screens fixed within a day or so. 

I would get the screens fixed asap, and hope that the tenant pays their rent, though they probably will not. You might not be able to find a PM to take this on at this point, but that's defintely what you need. You might post in the FL forums here and look for some referrals.

I'm truly sorry you are dealing with this- sometimes REI teaches us expensive lessons, but they'll be easy to remember! We've all been there, power through, best of luck. 

[John Morgan]

@Himateja Madala

I'd fix the patio screens. Keep the peace. If she's a pain, then raise her rent high at lease renewal. Hopefully she'll move out. If not, your high rent will pay for her neediness. That's what I do and it all works out. The low maintenance tenants get to stay $200/month or more below market rent since I don't have to deal with any pettiness with them. And these people will probably be lifers which is good for me since I have almost zero turnovers on my SFR.

[Adam Bartomeo]

Some good advice in this thread...

Is this even legal to do? As a property manager we here tenants say that they will with hold rent but this only happens when they get frustrated. We cut this off at the head! We tell them "In the sate of Florida it is illegal to withhold rent for repairs. We cannot force you to pay rent but we recommend that you pay your full rent on time. If you decide not to then you will have to pay the late fees and potentially be subject to legal action including eviction. Having that said, we are working on the repairs and we guarantee that they will be fixed." We do not play the "withholding rent" game with ANY of our tenants and follow the laws to a tee. 

Can I evict her on this basis? No, at least from what I understand in your post. I have been part of many eviction proceedings and one question that is always asked by the judge is if we have excepted ANY payment for that month. If you have excepted even $1 the court may perceive that as a rent payment. No matter the argument that the tenant has made the judge has ALWAYS said "They have not excepted payment from you and they will not except payment from you, case closed, you have to move out"

Should I let her withhold rent? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! According to the Tenant Landlord Act if there is a health concern the rent would have to be abated, meaning that the tenant has to move out until it is repaired and does not have to pay rent.

What if you didn't have patio screens? We have owners that refuse to make upgrade or make repairs to the property. For instance, a fence blew down and the owner refuses to have it repaired. We do not agree with this decision but we can only make repairs up to a certain dollar amount. The only argument a tenant could make in court is that the property was advertised as having a fence. 

I hope all of this helps. Don't hesitate to reach out if you want to talk it through.

[Nathan Gesner]

Quote from @Himateja Madala:

The Tenant can only withhold rent after following very specific steps. You can read the statute yourself: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Sta...

She has to notify you in writing, then give you 20 days to make the repairs. Even if you refused to make this repair, I doubt a torn screen is going to qualify for withholding rent.

Find a good attorney and get rid of her. 

This is a very minor issue but it's clearly causing you stress and eating up a lot of time. How will you handle major issues that are more complex? I recommend you start looking for a professional property manager.

[Oleksandr Ivanovskiy]

@Himateja Madala

Never let a tenant to repair things!!!!

She can’t legally withhold part of the rent claiming repairs unless of cause you authorised it.

Eviction is expensive,so I would just keep track on what she owe you. When the lease is up for renewal, don’t renew and deduct owed from security deposit.

[Himateja Madala]

Thanks all, after all your inputs i have extended the tenant "Happy Clause" but she refuses to leave. I have no interest to continue to engage with her but at this point eviction looks like only option. I dont want to go through the pain of eviction

I am in the process of fixing the patio and have all the materials ordered but still she wants to with hold rent. I am very doubtful to hand over the repairs in the hands of the tenant.

For items that are health hazard i do make sure to repair in in 3 days or the earliest but for things like patio screen i want to chose what works best for me.

[Himateja Madala]

hi @Ray Hage Would be able to share me the number of the handyman.

[Melanie Thomas]

I wanted to share a recommendation that I believe could greatly benefit our rental business. I suggest implementing a "Happiness Guarantee" clause, which would allow tenants to terminate their lease if they are not satisfied with their living situation. While it may sound unconventional, this approach has proven to be effective in helping us identify and filter out problematic individuals, and ultimately avoid unnecessary headaches.

Even with thorough tenant screening procedures in place, there will always be outliers who can make our lives challenging by magnifying minor issues. By offering tenants an option to leave if they are unhappy, we create a more harmonious living environment for everyone involved. This also demonstrates our commitment to ensuring tenant satisfaction and maintaining positive relationships.

I believe that this "Happiness Guarantee" clause will not only attract responsible and reasonable tenants, but also contribute to a more peaceful and enjoyable rental experience overall. It aligns with our goal of providing exceptional service and ensuring the well-being of our tenants. Good luck & happy investing!

[Michael Smythe]

Many tenants will push you until you say no or give them a brand new house - and then they will want $0 rent!