I have the worst Property Management experience. How are you....
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Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
3yWhen I lived in Los Angeles I self-managed my properties in Pennsylvania and did a fine job. I did a heck of a lot better than most (if not all) local PM companies would have done and I didn't have to pay 10+% for it.
Far away and need to rent a unit out? Pay someone from BP who is local to your rental to do a 2 hour Sunday showing to show the place to all qualified parties.
13 Replies
- 3yTheresa HarrisPro MemberMember since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
Unless you are doing an entire gut, you should be able to charge for damages in rooms that aren't being renovated.
- Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes3y
When I lived in Los Angeles I self-managed my properties in Pennsylvania and did a fine job. I did a heck of a lot better than most (if not all) local PM companies would have done and I didn't have to pay 10+% for it.
Far away and need to rent a unit out? Pay someone from BP who is local to your rental to do a 2 hour Sunday showing to show the place to all qualified parties.
- Fresno, CA · Member since 2013 · 30 posts · 4 votes3yRooms were painted by the tenant and carpet damaged. Would paint and carpet be considered a gut?
Quote from @Theresa Harris:
Unless you are doing an entire gut, you should be able to charge for damages in rooms that aren't being renovated.
- Fresno, CA · Member since 2013 · 30 posts · 4 votes3y
Quote from @Karl B.:
When I lived in Los Angeles I self-managed my properties in Pennsylvania and did a fine job. I did a heck of a lot better than most (if not all) local PM companies would have done and I didn't have to pay 10+% for it.
Far away and need to rent a unit out? Pay someone from BP who is local to your rental to do a 2 hour Sunday showing to show the place to all qualified parties.
How did you handle storing/giving/receiving tenant keys?
Pre & post inspections?
I assume online ads with email correspondences only, with phone calls if necessary?
- Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes3y
@Gary Thao
How are you getting these property managers?
Are you getting referrals from current clients? Did you fly out to meet with them and walk some of their properties?
Did you look at some properties they manage and check county to see if they have code violations
You cannot undo what has been done, but also you may want to look deeper into how to avoid this and what diligence you need to do to make sure this doesn’t happen again. This is one of the great things about BP tons of info on here how to get a PM
7e investments53 Reviews - Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes3y
Quote from @Gary Thao:
We need more detail.
If the Tenant painted the walls but you intend to paint them anyway, why would you charge them? If they put a hole in the wall and you need to patch it before you can paint it, then it makes sense to charge the tenant for the hole.
You should charge the Tenant to restore the unit back to its original condition, not as punishment. Don't charge them for something that you already intended to change at your own cost.
As for your property managers, they should have clear, written policies of what repairs they can make and when your permission is needed. They should also have a termination policy that allows you to terminate - without penalty - if they fail to abide by the agreement.
When it comes to professional services, you get what you pay for.
Start by going to www.narpm.org to search their directory of managers. These are professionals with additional training and a stricter code of ethics. It's no guarantee but it's a good place to start. You can also search Google and read reviews. Regardless of how you find them, try to interview at least three managers.
1. Ask how many units they manage and how much experience they have. If it's a larger organization, feel free to inquire about their staff qualifications.
2. Review their management agreement. Make sure it explicitly explains the process for termination if you are unhappy with their services, but especially if they violate the terms of your agreement.
3. Understand the fees involved and calculate the total cost for an entire year of management so you can compare the different managers. It may sound nice to pay a 6% management fee but the extra fees can add up to be more than the other company that charges 10% with no additional fees. Fees should be clearly stated in writing, easy to understand, and justifiable. Common fees will include a set-up fee, leasing fee for each turnover or a lease renewal fee, marking up maintenance, retaining late fees, and more. If you ask the manager to justify a fee and he starts hemming and hawing, move on or require them to remove the fee. Don't be afraid to negotiate, particularly if you have a lot of rentals.
4. Review their lease agreement and addenda. Think of all the things that could go wrong and see if the lease addresses them: unauthorized pets or tenants, early termination, security deposit, lease violations, late rent, eviction, lawn maintenance, parking, etc.
5. Don't just read the lease! Ask the manager to explain their process for dealing with maintenance, late rent, evictions, turnover, etc. If they are professional, they can explain this quickly and easily. If they are VERY professional, they will have their processes in writing as verification that policies are enforced equally and fairly by their entire staff.
6. Ask to speak with some of their current owners and current/former tenants. You can also check their reviews online at Google, Facebook, or Yelp. Just remember: most negative reviews are written by problematic tenants. The fact that a tenant is complaining online might be an indication the property manager dealt with them properly so be sure to ask the manager for their side of the story.
7. Look at their marketing strategy. Are they doing everything they can to expose properties to the widest possible market? Are their listings detailed with good quality photos? Can they prove how long it takes to rent a vacant property?
This isn't inclusive but should give you a good start. If you have specific questions about property management, I'll be happy to help!
The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews - 3yTheresa HarrisPro MemberMember since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
Quote from @Gary Thao:
Rooms were painted by the tenant and carpet damaged. Would paint and carpet be considered a gut?Quote from @Theresa Harris:
Unless you are doing an entire gut, you should be able to charge for damages in rooms that aren't being renovated.
No. You said you were doing renos-what are the renos that you are doing? If the tenant did a good job painting the rooms in a colour that works, leave them that colour. If the carpet was damage, but you had no plans to remove the carpet, then she should pay to replace them (Factoring in the age and lifespan of the carpet).
But if for the renos you had planned to do already (ie not because she damaged them, but because you said you were doing renos), if you were ripping out the carpet, I wouldn't charge her for that because you were going to pay to do it yourself anyhow.
- Investor · Spokane, WA · Member since 2015 · 238 posts · 133 votes3y
Horrible PM experiences are normal. I've used 3 PM companies thus far and fired all of them. For my out of state property I'm now just starting with my 3rd PM. If this doesn't work out I'm selling. I had a long term plan to buy at least a few more OOS properties; that plan is now out the window as the probability of ending up with a crappy PM seems more likely than not. The messes they create make it not worth it. Some people manage their own properties from a distance but personally I'm just not comfortable with doing that.
- 3yBen ScottPro MemberProperty Manager · Oklahoma City, OK · Member since 2019 · 577 posts · 351 votes
What is the biggest complaint from OOS investors about their PM. Truthfulness, responsiveness, upcharging?
And I agree. The spirit of the deposit is to return the property in the same condition as it was received. Any plans to do a remodel after the tenant moves out are irrevelvant. But, I'm sure Landlord Tenant laws in Oregon are bonkers.
- 3yJosh ChamberlinPro MemberReal Estate Agent · West Linn, OR · Member since 2014 · 28 posts · 13 votes
Sorry for your bad experience. Where in Oregon are your units? I am in the suburbs of Portland and can make introductions if you are ready to interview new property managers.
- Investor · Member since 2020 · 67 posts · 28 votes3y
Quote from @Gary Thao:
I am a long distant Landlord and have the worst Property Management experience. The first one would lie, charge me for expenses I never approved and evade my questions. Got rid of him and now this second one is doing similar. How are you finding good property managers?
Just last month, a long term tenant left. I get the statement this month and the property manager supposedly gave the tenant back all their deposit without notifying me and work needs to be done to the apartment. I'm currently emailing her back and her latest response is, "That was her refund of security deposit. we did not take anything out because the apartment was being remodeled after she moved so Oregon kinda frowns on taking money when you are going to remodel."
What a bunch of BS. Let me know what you'd do.
I have managed my own rental property before. These days I like to leave it to the pros. You didn't mention how much you paid them, but I have found with PM you definitely get what you pay for. There are some inexpensive property managers, and who find horrible tenants and are not good at taking care of issues. Here in Tampa Bay, I just joined an investment group. We have a very elite team that manages about 200 units. We are doing something right because we are getting more and more doors to manage. I am not extremely experienced with property management but love that I can rely on others for this. If you need help, give me a call or something.
- 3yElise Bickel TauberBusiness MemberReal Estate Agent · Cranberry Twp · Member since 2017 · 384 posts · 198 votes
I've managed my own properties and I have a property management company that manages over 500 units for other owners. I can tell you, no one will manage your properties like you do. I know this first hand. On the other side, the point of having a good pm is to not have to deal with the bs that comes up. I do think interviewing is good but also, ask them when interviewing how they would handle certain situations. What is their policy on turn overs? How would you handle a non-paying tenant? What do you do when a repair comes in? Even the best property manager may not mesh well with what you want/need. And the two of you should be a partnership. Join local investor groups (to where your properties are ) via social media if you cant do it in person. Look for recommendations and then interview thoroughly.
- International · Member since 2023 · 120 posts · 20 votes2y
@Gary Thao where are your properties located?
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