1st Direct Mail campaign, need some advice

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1st Direct Mail campaign, need some advice

Brad E.
Investor · Athens, GA · Member since 2015 · 205 posts · 66 votes

Hey BP

I'm putting together my first direct mail campaign and wanted to get some feedback from the community.

My initial plan (based on recommendations from folks here) was to run a 6 touch campaign on a list of 1000 absentee owners with > 50% equity, targeting small multi-fam in my surrounding area.

I'm using listsource to pull my list. Unfortunately I have found that I'm not able to pull exactly the details I wanted from listsource. For some reason when I filter using any criteria related to equity or loans, it 0's out my list. I am not sure why this is the case??

Anyway, without the equity filter I get my list back up to around 1200. I was almost ready to buy it and I checked the box for 'remove duplicate mailing addresses' which took the list back down to around 650. That is short of what I had budgeted for, at 1000 addresses. I am considering supplementing the 650 with an additional 350 of SFR, absentee, with high equity, to bring my total back up to around 1000 names.

So here are my questions:

1. Does it make sense to combine two potentially different target audiences into a single campaign? I don’t know if this can work with the same messaging to each.

2. If these are really 2 separate campaigns, is my list big enough? ie. are 650 MF and 350 SFR segments big enough to get any result running them separately.

3. Would it be better to expand my geography for the MF in order to get the number back up to 1000 and then do a separate campaign later with SFR if desired when my budget allows?

4. Is there different criteria that I should use to filter with, that work well specifically for multi-fam properties, since I can't get pull the equity?

This is my first time doing direct mail so I want to get it right. However, I know from my reading here that there is no single 'right way' and results will vary depending on my market. So I have to just get out there and try it. My biggest fear is I spend a few thousand dollars and have nothing to show for it. I'm pretty much over that fear but it still nags me at times. I keep telling myself the other option is do nothing, and that is just not acceptable.

I'd appreciate any advice or tips folks may have on this. Cheers.

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Jerryll Noorden
Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
6y
Originally posted by @Brad E.:

@Jerryll Noorden

For sure.  I'm going to give carrot.com a try.  I'd never heard of that before so thanks for the recommendation! 

Where can I find more info on your Bible of SEO World Domination?  I googled it but not seeing anything that matches that title.

 Oh Em Gee dude.

My bible won't EVER be found on internet. Are you kidding? That is the secret sauce to my success. I don't want those freaks in CT copying all my secrets now doot I.

Get the investor carrot site and I will share my secrets with you as long as you promise never to apply these in Connecticut!

2Reply
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  • Dennis Cosgrave
    Rental Property Investor · Member since 2019 · 304 posts · 462 votes
    6y

    You have not stated exactly what your objective is. Having said that, direct mail is old school. You can expect about a 4% response rate, which based on a mail list of 650, translates into about 26 responses. The question then becomes, how many of those 26 will convert? That depends on the objective. I think it would be more productive to formulate a digital campaign. You can rent email lists that are highly targeted. It costs nothing to email as opposed to all the printing and postage costs. Do you have a website? Do you have a Facebook page? Like them or not, digital is more powerful than snail mail. 

    1Reply
  • McKinley Crowley
    Specialist · Lawrence, MA · Member since 2017 · 365 posts · 150 votes
    6y

    @Brad E. I would recommend combining them and sending the same campaign to both lists. Keep the letter general, but tell them how you can benefit them. If you want to chat more feel free to message me and I would be happy to give you more incite. 

    0Reply
  • Brad E.
    OP
    Investor · Athens, GA · Member since 2015 · 205 posts · 66 votes
    6y

    @Dennis Cosgrave

    My objective is to buy and hold any discounted properties I get through these leads.  I agree snail mail is old school and I'm actually more comfortable with using technology.  However, I haven't run across any good resources to show how I can implement a digital strategy specifically for finding real estate. 

    I will look into the email list rental.  I didnt know that was a thing.  If you have any specific resources you could suggest I will definitely check them out.  I do have a facebook page and website, but havent figured out how to put together a campaign that can leverage those.

    Also, people swear by direct mail.  So I feel like it has to work still.  I think the best strategy would combine both physical and electronic options. Until I can figure out how to do that I was thinking to start with direct mail.  Thanks for the feedback.

    @McKinley Crowley - Ill be sending you a PM.

    1Reply
  • Ehsan Rishat
    Specialist · Carlsbad, CA · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 638 votes
    6y

    @Brad E.
    1. No need to run two different campaigns. You can stick to one unless you want to track the response rate. 
    2. Your list size is perfect and I know you mentioned this in your post but you must do at least 5-6 touches.

    3. Depends. If you're interested to buy both SFR and MF then no need to extend the geography.

    4. I have attached a screenshot below of my list criteria. If you need more resources on listsource or direct mail templates that works for me, feel free to message me.

    Looks like you know how direct mail works. Just don't get frustrated if you don't see much response from your first 2 mailings. Response rate usually goes up from 3rd mailing. Good luck!

    1Reply
  • Brad E.
    OP
    Investor · Athens, GA · Member since 2015 · 205 posts · 66 votes
    6y

    @Ehsan Rishat

    Thanks!

    1Reply
  • Jerryll Noorden
    Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Brad E.:

    Hey BP

    I'm putting together my first direct mail campaign and wanted to get some feedback from the community.

    My initial plan (based on recommendations from folks here) was to run a 6 touch campaign on a list of 1000 absentee owners with > 50% equity, targeting small multi-fam in my surrounding area.

    I'm using listsource to pull my list. Unfortunately I have found that I'm not able to pull exactly the details I wanted from listsource. For some reason when I filter using any criteria related to equity or loans, it 0's out my list. I am not sure why this is the case??

    Anyway, without the equity filter I get my list back up to around 1200. I was almost ready to buy it and I checked the box for 'remove duplicate mailing addresses' which took the list back down to around 650. That is short of what I had budgeted for, at 1000 addresses. I am considering supplementing the 650 with an additional 350 of SFR, absentee, with high equity, to bring my total back up to around 1000 names.

    So here are my questions:

    1. Does it make sense to combine two potentially different target audiences into a single campaign? I don’t know if this can work with the same messaging to each.

    2. If these are really 2 separate campaigns, is my list big enough? ie. are 650 MF and 350 SFR segments big enough to get any result running them separately.

    3. Would it be better to expand my geography for the MF in order to get the number back up to 1000 and then do a separate campaign later with SFR if desired when my budget allows?

    4. Is there different criteria that I should use to filter with, that work well specifically for multi-fam properties, since I can't get pull the equity?

    This is my first time doing direct mail so I want to get it right. However, I know from my reading here that there is no single 'right way' and results will vary depending on my market. So I have to just get out there and try it. My biggest fear is I spend a few thousand dollars and have nothing to show for it. I'm pretty much over that fear but it still nags me at times. I keep telling myself the other option is do nothing, and that is just not acceptable.

    I'd appreciate any advice or tips folks may have on this. Cheers.

     Brad, do NOT send a SINGLE mailer out until you have a website with your credibility fine tuned for conversion. I know you want to start and you are eager... But first of all... 6 touches of 1000 hits. Dude, ... I would SO not do that! That money can get you SO MUCH further doing FB ads or PPC even. But OK your money your reasons.

    However although that can be preference and opinion, having a credible website is not an opinion or a preference. This is flat out a must and anyone that does not take this seriously is ABSOLUTELY winging it and throwing money away.

    On your mailers you need to tell people to visit your website for more information.

    If you do NOT do this, people will resort to Google for more info.

    And if I were competing in your market, and people were resorting to Google.. well...

    Do a search for "We Buy Houses In COnnecticut"

    Sell My House In Connecticut"

    Sell My House CT

    Sell House CT

    How do I sell my house in ct fast

    Cash buyers in ct

    house Cash buyers in ct

    Cash for my house CT...

    Dude what EVER people will search WE come up first. Do not leave it up to them and hope they will find you. Shove your website in their face. Do not give them a reason to do a search on the net.

    I would take more than HALF of your positive responders away from you.

    So, this is not a matter of preference or opinion, you need a website FIRST before you even THINK about paid marketing!

    Do you know HOW MANY calls we get from people that said "Hey I got your mailer today, how does it work". We NEVER send any mailers. We NEVER do any paid advertising. This is all from our sweet little competitors sending out direct mailers and they go online to vrify and find us.

    So Send mailers at your own peril without having a website!

    1Reply
  • Brad E.
    OP
    Investor · Athens, GA · Member since 2015 · 205 posts · 66 votes
    6y

    @Jerryll Noorden

    Thanks. I have a website which I was planning to include but am clear on how to convert a lead that way.

    This type of transaction seems to require a conversation/interaction.

    0Reply
  • Jerryll Noorden
    Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Brad E.:

    @Jerryll Noorden

    Thanks. I have a website which I was planning to include but am clear on how to convert a lead that way.

    This type of transaction seems to require a conversation/interaction.

     A website won't do anything unless you mastered credibility.

    You need a credible website.

    Credibility is an art and a science! You have to master it. You need it to be successful with marketing!

    I hope the site in your profile is not the site you are referring to right?

    0Reply
  • Brad E.
    OP
    Investor · Athens, GA · Member since 2015 · 205 posts · 66 votes
    6y

    @Jerryll Noorden

    Yes. That is my website. I didn’t say it was awesome :)

    Any tips?

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Rental Property Investor · North Conway, NH · Member since 2016 · 69 posts · 16 votes
    6y

    I would personally use Facebook marketing. 79% of internet users are on Facebook with the average user spending around 2 hours on the site. The ads can be tailored to specific people similarly to the direct mail list, however, instead of having % of equity, home value etc. you'll be choosing location, age etc. 

    0Reply
  • Jerryll Noorden
    Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Brad E.:

    @Jerryll Noorden

    Yes. That is my website. I didn’t say it was awesome :)

    Any tips?

    No worries. I didn't say that because it is bad. I said it because it is just the wrong site.

    OK here are some tips:

    1) Please get an investor carrot website. Don't worry about the why's just do this. It is the first step to become successful Trust me on this! Talk to Trevor.

    2) Send out the right message. Do this test. Try hard to pretend you don't know your own website. Close your eyes.. "land on it being a stranger", open your eyes for 2 seconds. Not more than exactly 2 seconds. Close your eyes again, and tell me what the website is about, from your 2 second exposure to the site. I can tell you that everyone will think you sell houses, or that you are looking for tenants. That is completely the wrong message.

    3) No distractions, don't try to sell your self above the fold (the part of the website you see when you land on it without scrolling down). Just make people immediately aware what you offer, what your services are, what you do, what problems you solve. You Buy Houses!! That should be the focus of above the page. YOU BUY HOUSES. Need to sell you house?. Show them you are credible immediately.

    4) The Frog with Google. Screw Google. Google can sniff my stinky pits for all I care. Stop trying to please Google. Don't say STUPID crap like "Are you saying "I Need To Sell My House Fast"". Who in the HELL talks this way? Every time I see this on people's website I Immediately know they know NOTHING about SEO, or marketing, or getting leads. Stupid language like this shows utter ignorance in the niche. Obviously you think that was a clever way to include a direct match keyword into your content.First we do not care about Google. We care about conversions. We care about pleasing your traffic, not google. Google is smart enough to know what your site is about without trying so hard to include direct match search queries in your content. You just look and sound ignorant. So don't do that.

    5) Remove all stock pictures. Show your face. Get a cool logo. Anyone that says.. ahh don;t worry too much about your logo, just get something done and market is wrong. Your logo is extremely important. Try to stay at 2 colors nothing more, nothing less. One color should be a tame color that is abundant, and the other color should just create a POP effect. It should be noticeable, and memorable. Don;t do the logo with a roof and the name of your company. How is that memorable people when 99% of you have something super similar!

    6) Customize your web art. Make it nice, professional looking. I often see website graphics on sites that are scaled down and become a bit blurry. NOTHING is worse than this. You look like a fly by night company. Look at Nike. Are their pics amateurishly edited? No! Then why are yours?!

    7) Don't try too hard to be something you are not. If you are not funny, stop trying to by cute on your site. Simply be you. 

    8) Make your site INVITING to read. Here is the problem ALL (no no I mean this.. ALL every SINGLE one of you!!!) are making. You think that because you write amazing content, explaining all there is to explain with insane detail awesome segregated and every single question and concern flat out answered. And you think that is all you need. NO ONE will read a huge block of text. No matter how awesome your content is, it needs to be inviting to read. 

    9) NEVER make your site pretty for the sake of making it pretty, or different. Make your site conversion friendly. If you need to make your website pretty to do this, then fine! Conversion is everything! It is more important than ranking #1. You can always drive traffic manually to your site. But if your site is not converting traffic, no matter how high you rank you will always be struggling.

    This is an example of a good site:

    https://www.webuyhousesfastindallas.com/

    Clean. Inviting to read. Professional. Plenty of credibility. If any of you copy I will go berserk on your butts. DO NOT COPY! Still needs work, but they are getting daily leads.

    This stuff works. No idea why so many people ignore websites. Don't be one of them!

    Well I can go on, but I much rather send traffic to my own blog (Sorry Biggerpockets). I left the best and juiciest secrets in my  Bible Of SEO World Domination.

    1Reply
  • Brad E.
    OP
    Investor · Athens, GA · Member since 2015 · 205 posts · 66 votes
    6y

    @Jerryll Noorden

    Great stuff.  Thank you!

    0Reply
  • Jerryll Noorden
    Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Brad E.:

    @Jerryll Noorden

    Great stuff.  Thank you!

     NP. None of this info matters if you don't listen to it and apply it.

    Get your site in order!

    0Reply
  • Brad E.
    OP
    Investor · Athens, GA · Member since 2015 · 205 posts · 66 votes
    6y

    @Jerryll Noorden

    For sure.  I'm going to give carrot.com a try.  I'd never heard of that before so thanks for the recommendation! 

    Where can I find more info on your Bible of SEO World Domination?  I googled it but not seeing anything that matches that title.

    0Reply
  • Jerryll Noorden
    Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Brad E.:

    @Jerryll Noorden

    For sure.  I'm going to give carrot.com a try.  I'd never heard of that before so thanks for the recommendation! 

    Where can I find more info on your Bible of SEO World Domination?  I googled it but not seeing anything that matches that title.

     Oh Em Gee dude.

    My bible won't EVER be found on internet. Are you kidding? That is the secret sauce to my success. I don't want those freaks in CT copying all my secrets now doot I.

    Get the investor carrot site and I will share my secrets with you as long as you promise never to apply these in Connecticut!

    2Reply
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