The Brakes are Broken, Stop the Addiction!!!

The Brakes are Broken, Stop the Addiction!!!

Investor · San Ramon, CA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 569 votes

Alright, I've had too much bouncing around my head and need to put a bit down on paper to see what the rest of the BP Nation thinks. Please bare with me if you would. (Yep, looking back now that I'm done, it's long... read fast!)

I started investing Thanksgiving last year. Bought a duplex and dived into the landlord world. Given the limited funds I was starting with, I figured that would be it for a while. I could learn the ropes, explore and learn the market better, and in parallel save up funds for additional down payments. But then an FSBO quadplex came on the market just before Christmas that was just too good to pass up. I pulled the equity out of a car we owned and snatched that up. Not only did I get a chance to triple my units from 2 to 6, it gave me experience in buying subject to financing, and also forced me to contact a bunch more banks as I looked for a way to refi out of the HML the seller had in place. Okay, now I'm done, broke, trapped equity I can't tap til June... time to learn to be a landlord. Eh, not so much it turns out.

So right before closing on the refi, I'm still shopping around FSBO listings to see if I can get into any properties for zero or next to zero down, makes sense for a cash flow investor right? Well a seller tells me he can't do 100% financing but that he would be willing to carry a 30% down payment note if I can get financing for the other 70%. Hmmm, that's intriguing I think. Being this happened days before the Refi on the HML, I figured I would ask my new found lender while I was closing if they had done things like that before. Turns out, absolutely! Here I am, basically presented with an opportunity to do 100% financing. Surely this silver "bullet", this financing "magic" will only be available for 1 property? Oh heck no, as long as my Debt to Income stays solid, they have no qualms doing several they tell me. WOW!

So the seller who originally presented this idea ultimately backs out, they got a similar offer without the need to carry the 30% and went that way. But there were a few other properties I had seen that would make solid investments. They all rent for at least 1.5% of purchase price and I could "buy" anywhere from 10 - 25% equity based on my analysis in what I believed they'd appraise at. I figured I would reach out on these properties, 5 in total, and maybe 1 would be interested. Now realize, all 5 had previously said they weren't interested in seller financing. So my realtor calls them, FOUR!!! respond back saying they are interested. Holy cannoli! I can either pay closing costs (give or take $2,500) or even roll those into mortgages and greatly expand my portfolio... going from 6 units to 16 units! Naturally, another unit has since been posted to the MLS, and they too are interesting making it 5 houses and 18 total units (from 6)... what is wrong with me!

The negotiations on all 5 are going well. Two have backed off the 70/30 and have moved more to 95% owner financing so I'll play those by ear but all look doable. In the next 6 weeks I believe I can close all 5 deals.

So here's where I need BP Nation's advice... can one grow too quickly? I know Ryan had concerns at the summit (Btw, thanks for chatting with me at supper, I really wasn't that antisocial the entire event, was just in a self reflective mood when you caught me!) or at least looked at me in astonishment. For sure, I am stretching my cash reserves but that would only be a temporary thing. They would recover in approximately 2 or 3 months to very conformable levels. I'm more worried that I'm simply biting off more than one can chew. Is managing 7 rentals really that much different than 1 or 2 in your experience? I mean, I want to capture as many good/great deals as I can but at the same time, long term success is what I'm really looking for.

Like I said, the brakes appear to be broken. This real estate bug is looking more like an addiction. Am I careening towards certain disaster or am I simply overdosing on pure goodness? Is it time to throw open the emergency chute... should I maybe tap the brakes and take a breath... or should I continue balls to the wall?

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Investor · Hampton Bays, NY · Member since 2009 · 907 posts · 258 votes
14y

Hello Nathan, great post. I find that prices come down and terms get much better when tenants are behind in rent, deferred maintenance comes home to roost or the property is vacant for a few months. use extreme due diligence in these matters. with respect to financing remember leverage works both ways. Expect the best but plan for the worst is a cliche but never the less true. With real estate looking good on paper is only the beginning. My goal is to get 2% or more in rent so if your deal only works if great financing is available then Look harder and only take the best deals. You may find that there are much fewer of those but they will be that much more rewarding.

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  • Investor · Louisville, KY · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    14y

    I vote balls to the wall as long as you can handle the pressure.

    I've had many people tell me to keep RE as my hobby and my day job as my golden parachute, but the truly wealthy people find something they are passionate about and dive in head first with no backup plan. There are countless billionaire-types as examples (Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerburg to name a few). I'm sure their friends and families were telling them to pump the brakes, but they didn't listen.

    Just make sure you have both hands on the steering wheel so you don't lose control!

    I'm going to use this as motivation to get out and make some more deals happen :)

  • Real Estate Broker · Castle Rock, CO · Member since 2011 · 22 posts · 4 votes
    14y

    I'm inclined to agree completely with Michael, however; (always a however right) -After experiencing D.Scott Smith Presentation (Forecasting Demand) at the Awesome First Ever BiggerPockets Conference...
    I would look for Future Demand Clues to see if there is a reason ALL OF THESE DEALS are hitting you at once.

  • Involved In Real Estate · Rochester Hills, MI · Member since 2010 · 812 posts · 178 votes
    14y

    My only advice is to make sure you are able to carry that many liabilities. I may have missed it as i skimmed your post, but if they are all vacant, getting that many units rented yourself could be a daunting task. Sounds like you work with a solid realtor, he may have a referral to a good PM company so you can focus on doing what you do best, getting these deals done. I'd try to close them all, assuming you have the reserves, then de leverage a bit for a while.

  • Investor · Hampton Bays, NY · Member since 2009 · 907 posts · 258 votes
    14y

    Hello Nathan, great post. I find that prices come down and terms get much better when tenants are behind in rent, deferred maintenance comes home to roost or the property is vacant for a few months. use extreme due diligence in these matters. with respect to financing remember leverage works both ways. Expect the best but plan for the worst is a cliche but never the less true. With real estate looking good on paper is only the beginning. My goal is to get 2% or more in rent so if your deal only works if great financing is available then Look harder and only take the best deals. You may find that there are much fewer of those but they will be that much more rewarding.

  • Landlord · Seattle, WA · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    14y

    Can you grow to fast. Absolutely. There are lots of examples of companies that grew to fast crashed and burned. As an accountant I have worked with and heard of many of these situations.

    If your deals are solid and you take time to build adequate reserves, you may be fine. It sounds like your reserves may be thin and I would highly recommend using your cashflow to fund your reserves and solidify your positions.

    Should you go out and buy more if the opportunity came up? Maybe. In your position I might, but don't ignore the need for reserves it will come back to haunt you otherwise. Vacancies, major repairs and assessments happen. It is only a matter of time.

  • Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    14y

    Nathan Emmert I know you are pretty financially sophisticated. Continually ask the question, "Will this help my balance sheet?" Or here's another one to ask, "if three big things go wrong in a row, where will that leave me (and my family)?

  • Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2012 · 8 posts · 5 votes
    14y

    While I love the enthusiasm, be careful about quitting the day job. Many banks and lenders of any kind want to see proof or funds or have you have some skin in the game. All might seem great, but I have seen things take some serious turns where 1 property will fail (for whatever reason) and several of your other good deals will be dragged down with it. Some of the best investors I have ever met go hard, but make sure they maintain appropriate levels of risk. The last thing you ever want to do is go through a foreclosure or bankruptcy. You will be out of the game for the next decade (unless you have a few 100k sitting in an account)

  • Investor · San Ramon, CA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 569 votes
    14y

    Thanks for the responses.

    @Edward... I'm cherry picking. I like the market I am in out here long term and feel I understand it.

    @Michael... I'm not willing to work hard enough to find 2%, that tends to be an off market return. With 1.5% and a 25% down payment I can get a 15% return. If I'm closer to 1.7 or 1.8% and buying equity allowing me less than a 25% down payment it's even higher. I'm very happy with those types of returns when I have 23 years until retirement.

    @Charles... agreed. My reserves will be stretched by this little endeavor and I would spend the next few months recovering them. I'm hoping to refi conventionally at least on some come June/July so I'd probably stock pile cash until then.

    @Jon... ah shucks, flattery will get you everywhere with me ;) What you posted is actually why I posted this. I want all of these properties, for 2 reasons... 1) they help my balance sheet because I'm "buying" equity with appraisals expected to show I have immediate 10 - 25% equity even with 100% financing of purchase price. Beyond that, even at 6.5% and 15 year amorts on part of the funding, given the 50% rule, all of these still cash flow meaning my top level cash on cash return and debt to income improve with each property.

    @Matthew... no worries about quitting the day job. I make a great salary, good benefits, and I get the intellectual stimulation I need from it. Real estate is an avenue for passive income with allows me to retire in 23 years.

    Thanks again everyone... anyone else feel free to respond. Any horror stories?

  • Rental Property Investor · Manteno, IL · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    14y

    You gotta enjoy the run while you can. This is a unique opportunity we're in and the people who take action and grab it are going to be the ones that set themselves up for the rest of their lives.

    If the numbers make sense and the deals are coming in, why stop?

    Managing properties is easy. But don't you need to do any rehabs for these houses? How are you funding that?

    As far as reserves, your cash flow should start being enough based on the numbers you're putting out there to start contributing pretty significantly to your reserves.

    But don't worry about the management of the units. Once you get them rented, you should be able to go to autopilot. The hardest part is managing the rehabs for that many units at once. But since you don't seem to be doing any rehab, you should be golden.

    Nice job. I only wish I could find a lender that was willing to finance 70% with seller financing of the remaining 30%. I thought all the local banks had to see some skin in the game these days.

    Don't question it though. Thank your lucky stars and keep growing your "employment insurance". :-)

  • Mark UpdegraffBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · Rochester, NY · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 693 votes
    14y

    Great post. It seems to me that you're banking heavily on equity capture at purchase, which is contingent on an appraisal. Just remember we're in a buyers market. In my experience the purchase price is never totally ignored. This is where we get into the perceived value concept. Given your hold time your opinion of value may be skewed too high for the current market. I'm a long investor, and I know mine tends to be. BUT, after time goes by, and your assumptions end up being true, you get a reduction in the amount of risk you're taking. So, can you go too fast? Sure. Maybe get an appraisal and test your assessment. The last thing you want to do is make a big mistake after you've worked this hard!

    Those that take the greatest risk, get the greatest returns!
    just be smart about it ;-)

    Happy Buying!
    Mark

  • Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2011 · 242 posts · 61 votes
    14y

    Thanks for posting this Nathan Emmert. I would like to look into some of these near 100% financed deals also. As others have said be careful. That being said I personally would go close as many deals like this as I can if the numbers look good. Have some cash reserves or credit left over for the occasional oops.

  • Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2008 · 244 posts · 36 votes
    14y

    I'm addicted to real estate as well. Keep it moving and you'll do fine. For me, managing and owning 20+ rentals is easier than when I had 3. (The money is a lot better too) You will quickly adjust to the increase in rentals.

  • Jesse PollPro Member
    Real Estate Agent · St George, UT · Member since 2012 · 78 posts · 8 votes
    14y

    @Nathan, Thank you for sharing this post.

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