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Updated about 14 years ago, 12/03/2010
Multifamily buying process
Hey Everyone,
I have been sitting around for WAY too long waiting to get into the game and decided that multi family properties that give me cashflow right now are a solid bet. I stumbled across a 6 unit property it is 2 triplexes but they are selling them together. It is a short sale so I'm assuming thats why it is such a great deal but we will see.
Cost is 82,700
Each unit is rented out for $450 a month right now.
There are a few problems, it says drive by only and I have no credit. As far as the drive by, I have a right once in the process of being serious to check out the units and talk to the tennants and obviously get an inspection done correct?
As far as my credit issue, I have "perfect" credit but the problem is I have never carried a loan. I have a pretty good amount of cash and my DTI is very high because I don't have any debt.
My main concern though is will the agent let you go talk to the tennants and check the place out. The deal numbers wise works but I will not buy this place blind. It isn't a great area but it isn't a war zone either.
Thanks for your help!
Hey Matt
Good on you for getting going :) Taking action already puts you ahead of the game!
Yes, you should be able to get in and check everything out, if not before, by putting in a "due diligence" condition in your contract, giving you time to walk through every unit and get them all checked out thoroughly.
So ... get the real data (not just proformas), check out past operational expenses and income, check out what maintenance has been done and what has been put off (by asking the questions in the first place, and then by double checking yourself later)... and if you can't get in before hand, get an attorney to help you with the letter of intent, include your due diligence clauses, and that way if you discover something way out of budget, you can cut your losses and walk away.
HTH
Martha
Matt,
Congratulations on finally getting in the game. I remember the day I said, "Yes, I can DO this," and it was a great feeling to close my first deal soon thereafter.
I like your approach here. If you can buy multi-families right, I think you can do very well. Your numbers sound great: $2,700 in monthly against an $80,000 price sounds great. It's almost too good, though, so make sure you understand ALL of the expenses associated with this place. Get copies of the leases, too.
In answer to your question, yes, you absolutely have the right to include a full inspection on the property before you go to closing. Whether the bank will let you do that or not, I can't say. I would assume that they are eager to move the property and will do what it takes. However, they could be offering it at a low price without letting you inspect it -- sort of like how you would buy a property at a foreclosure...you're being asked to roll the dice. I would not do that for your first time out.
As far as getting qualified, there's only one way to do that -- talk to a mortgage banker or broker and see what they will do for you. If you can kick in some equity, you will have a much better shot.
Remember this, however...there's a reason that this property ended up in a short sale. The landlord could not make his payments, even with that supposed $2,700 in rental income coming in. Sure, he might have overpaid and had 100% financing, but even so, he should have been able to make the payments unless he had other obligations and his whole business sort of imploded. Bottom line, though, you need to try to determine WHY this property failed for the previous owner before you decide to take it on.
And don't forget to ask how much, if any, you're going to be liable for in terms of security deposits. You don't want a tenant moving out in a month and telling you that you owe him $450 for his security deposit.
Lots of ways to get burned here, but lots of ways to make a nice monthly income, too. Good luck!
Are the two triplexes separately deeded? If so, your loan situation will be simpler because a triplex qualifies for a conventional loan.
You say you have no credit and perfect credit. Sounds like its actually no credit, which is not perfect credit, unfortunately. You say your DTI is high, but that can't be the case if you have no outstanding debt. Do you have a solid W2 job? Will the income from that job cover the payments on these properties? Have you spoken with a (or some) lender(s) or brokers? If not, I'd start there and see what's possible.
Do you have a decent (20-30%) down payment?
The numbers sound good, but you'll still need to get the money.
Is there good demand for this type of property?
If you buy at that price, and put in whatever money is needed to get them into rentable shape, are you still at a discount compared to similar properties? Do you have the cash for the fixup, after making the down payments?
If its a short sale, its the bank's approval you really need, not the seller's. The seller is a step, but the seller's approval means very little. State in your contract that earnest money will be provided by certified funds within (say) 48 hours of the lender's approval of the deal. Otherwise you can end up with cash tied up in a deal that's going nowhere.
You'll probably need to have an approved contract before they will let you in to look at the place or talk to the tenants. Tenants can get spooked when buyers start walking through and can move out, making a bad situation worse. But once you have a contract in place, the seller knows you're serious and that you need access.
as far as not getting access, this is normal for what i've seen in multifamily...i sold a 4 unit the same way--the last thing you want is tire kickers to keep bothering your tenants and scare your tenants into giving notice and leaving...as a buyer, it works in your favor..i bought a 10 unit, and had it under contract for a few weeks....i couldn't get access to the last unit until 2 days before close..when i got in, i said "woah, this place is a mess!" moral of the story, i got a 10k repair credit bc sellers didn't want to go through all that again with a new buyer if i walked...
Wow, thanks for all the replies! To address some of the questions and an update. The property was actually put under contract for a while and fell out earlier this month. The list price is the accepted price by the lenders. So this could mean the possible buyer prior to was weary or something fell through.
As far as my situation, I have never had a loan so what I did the other day was take out a loan against my own money just to start paying it back and build credit. I have two credit cards but have never owed any money on them. As far as debt to income ration, I have a full time job and am living rent free currently and have no other debt to pay off. I do have money for a 20% down payment and possible repairs as well.
This is also why I have been looking for owner financing possibilities, which I have found but the deals are not quite as good.
Matt,
What the sellers mean is the past buyer either found something on inspection,the bank took too long to reply to the short sale,or the buyers offer was too low and they didn't like the banks counter.
So short sale approved means the bank has ordered evaluations of the property and came to the conclusion this is what they would accept. Generally the sellers have no money in these situations.So the costs associated with the seller side the bank might balk at paying and you will have to come up with those funds.
The separate deed issue is a biggie as well.
Residential loans are single family properties,duplexes,tri's,and quad's.
Anything 5 units and above goes into commercial financing.Commercial financing the underwriting is much easier to qualify for as it's not regulated like the residential.
If the properties are separate legal description than most lenders will count them separately and not together.This will force you into a residential type lender. If it's one legal description you can count as 5 units or above.
They are some commercial lenders who will do if separate legal descriptions but the properties have to be together and the lenders are few and far between.
As gar as tenant inspections.Many times buyers just say insurance inspectors to take pictures so it doesn't spook them.If the seller has been a crappy landlord they won't mind new blood.
If the current landlord is awesome and their impression of you is not stellar they might high tail it out the door.
If the landlord has been self-managing it will make more of a difference.If property was managed by a company and you keep that company not much will change for the tenants.
- Joel Owens
- Podcast Guest on Show #47
Selling them together - does that mean that they were on a "blanket" loan, and only one short sale to haggle out, or are they two separate loans with two separate short sales to negotiate?
If you lose a few tenants - this gives you time to remodel that unit and put rents up to reflect the better condition of the rennovated unit. Got to build up the cash flow!
Not sure I agree with Joel about the loans. With four units or less, you have the option of conventional loans. Those are usually lower rates and longer terms. With five or more units, you don't have that option and must go with a commercial loan. However, you can get a commercial loan for a 1-4 unit property. You'll probably have to pay a higher rate, have a short term, and maybe have a fairly short balloon, but commercial loans are still an option for a small property.
if you've had a steady job for a year or 2, and have had the discipline to save up 20% and can prove it's been in your bank accuont for a while (not gifted by someone else), there's no reason you can't walk into a smaller bank and get a loan....my advice is to start setting up meetings with smalltime bankers....you may find one in tiem for this deal, and you may not, but the relationship with that banker is more important that this deal probably...good luck
Bryan,
This is good advice if you are looking for commercial money, but for residential, the loans are purchased by fanny and freddie and you must meet their criteria. It does not matter who you know... the banks dont want to hold a long note at a low rate.
thanks jeffrey...i'm glad you think my advice was good!! i think it applies to matt bc he did say it was a 6 unit..also, you can get a commercial loan on a SFR if you choose to...i've done it when others wouldn't lend to me..yes i pay 6.5% interest, but as you mentioned, the loan stayed in house and didn't count towards my bullets for frannie and freddie
You might have to make an actual written offer to get into the property. Take the advice of a few other posters and make sure your offer has a clause that allows you to walk away if you don't like what you see. make sure it allows you to get back any upfront money you may have to fork over.
The one document I like to get to prove property income is the seller's tax return - at least the schedule that shows the numbers from this property. To this day, i've never had a seller turn down that request. They've waited ot the last minute to get it to me, but never ultimately turned it down. I also put in my contract that the offer is conditional upon my review of those documents. I ask for tax records because, in my opinion, they are better than some excel file the owner can crank out before your meeting.
if you are buying from a larger company or investment group that will not disclose that tax document you will get the income and expense sheets from them or their management company.
make sure you confirm these numbers the best you can. Since it's your first deal you may not know what the right number are for expenses, so make sure you check back on this blog for experts who might be investing in your area. If you need help, get a savvy broker in your area who can help you.
If you think you will be getting financing to buy the property I would start looking into that process now. Some of those lenders may require documents that you might not have thought to ask for. It would be good to stipulate those docs in your offer letter as well.
If the owner can't, or won't, provide those docs it doesn't matter - you wont be able to get it financed, walk away-unless you want to buy cash or setup some other creative purchase.
Good luck.
National,regional,and local banks aren't the only game in town.
If we are talking only in that context and you have 20% to 25% to put down and can document everything to the umpteenth degree than you may get a loan.
Many of the investors I come across love commercial loans because they can find putting say 5% or 10% down for a slightly higher rate and then you get the seller to carry the other 10% to 15% at below market interest rates.
Also with vanilla type loans some will take a very long time to close.For some investors a slightly higher rate and a fast closing is what they are after. If you have to drop 25% into every deal soon you will not have very much cash.
At that point you have to start forming groups for buying different properties to get the money down which can be a headache to keep up with and cause a big mess with equity interests in the future.
So I have had investors tell me they would rather put less down and have the seller carry some and be able to leverage themselves into purchasing many more deals.
It just depends on the individual investor with what will work best for them and their A,B,and C exit strategy they will employ later down the road.
YES you will need more than one exit strategy in case plan A goes south.
I am by no means a loan expert but this is just the feedback I get on the investors that call.
There are up to 100% commercial loans out there and they are not hard money rates.
For this small of a deal with 2 tri-plexes a local bank might be the best bet to try first.
- Joel Owens
- Podcast Guest on Show #47
1) If you don't have experience find an agent (referred) who does to represent you.
I personally go to the listing agent but I am very comfortable in buying properties and understanding the process. You don't seem to even know which way is up (this is not meant to be condescending) and you really can't expect to get more than general answers from a real estate board.
A few things I can suggest.
1) figure out your financing up front. It's not that difficult to figure out what you can buy whether it is commercial or residential. This will lead you to what price range properties you should spend your time tracking down.
2) don't talk to the tenants until you get the deal under contract. It's a waste of time to spend to much effort up front if you don't even know if you have a deal or not.
IF you have a deal and it is a short sale you probably won't be able to get income and expense. Ask for tenant estopels which are forms filled out by the tenants letting you know how much they pay, their deposit and lease terms.
If you don't know expenses make a bunch of cold calls to owners on craigslist with similar properties and let them know you are new to the business (people usually like to help others if you approach it correctly) and are currently in escrow to buy a 5 unit property (don't tell them the exact size or location just in case they are snakes and try to swoop in and buy it from under neath you) and wanted to get their opinions on rents, vacancies and expenses.
Keep track of this info, see if you can see a unit they have for rent and keep a chart on these properties so you can compare to your own.
If you are buying larger apartment complexes check out IREM.
Good luck but be careful. Everyone seems to wants cash flow just like everyone wants to be a millionaire UNTIL they realize how much effort is involved.
You may want to start small by buying your own house first, living there for 6-12 months, buying another place, renting the first and get your feet wet to owning rentals to make sure it is really what you want.
Keep us posted and I will say I love this business and feel fortunate everyday that I was dumb enough to know any better and by the time I knew any better I was to far in to get out!
Thanks again for all the great depots guys. I still am looking into this one more and talking with people about my finances.
I am also looking at a triplex that is priced at 80. Total rents are 1500 a month. This triplex is much nicer and in a better area and also has owner financing which is very appealing in my situation. We will see where it goes!