Case study for investing in Atlanta

Case study for investing in Atlanta

Developer · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2014 · 19 posts · 6 votes

Hey Bigger Pockets! I custom build and remodel higher end properties in the northern Atlanta neighborhoods, mainly Brookhaven. I have the following scenario for investing with a couple of pictures of a recent project and want to get your thoughts. The purchase price of the existing homes are in the 200s to 300s depending on their location in the neighborhood, size etc. Most of the ones I look for are in the $230-$280 price range. These houses start as brick ranches, 3 bedrooms/2 baths, and I will add square footage to the main floor and then add a second floor. This gives the first floor comfortable modern spaces, not the small older living rooms all ranches had, open kitchens with custom cabinets and high end appliance packages, and master suites with marble baths. The second floor will have some kind of loft/play room for the kids and 3-4 additional bedrooms and 2-3 secondary baths. Renovation costs are in the $150k to $180k range for a total out of pocket cost around $400-$450k. The sales prices for this level of home are above $550k, as much as $650k for the larger square footage homes and nicer lots, and typical real estate commissions are 6%. Given there will be closing costs and carrying costs, and the project would take 4-5 months to complete, do you think a 50/50 split between the builder (me!) and the investor is fair? I would do the ground work, find the house, coordinate all the work through to closing, and the investor would put up the full amount of the purchase and renovation. I don't get paid during the project and we split the profits at closing. It's a good deal for me, and in my opinion for the investor. I could turn his money twice a year depending on how quick the sale closes and that would increase his annual ROI. What are your thoughts?

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Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 212 posts · 107 votes
12y

My question is how the heck do you find a $230-280k house in Brookhaven...

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  • Investor · Knoxville, TN · Member since 2012 · 96 posts · 33 votes
    12y

    As I put myself in an investors shoes I say this sounds reasonable, but I'd need a little something more as I'm putting my faith in your numbers and your estimates. Frankly that scares me because we've never worked together before. As a pretend investor, here is what I propose to you in return. I'll split 50-50 with you if the returns prove to be in the ballpark of what you say they are. However if they end up being less due to you underestimating renovation costs or over estimating sales price, your take home is less and mine is more. For example, if you present to me that we can make $65-80K on the deal, then we split 50-50. But if we actually make $40-65K, then the split is 60-40 in my favor because you oversold me. And if we actually make $25-40K, then the split goes to 70-25. You get the picture. This gives me incentive to trust your numbers and take a chance on you while it forces you to do your homework and not sell me false estimates. As we work together on more projects we can arrange things differently, but I need to see the proof that you are a good investment. I'm sure you can pick apart my scenario, but I think the idea is still valid that you have to give an investor incentive to trust your numbers if he is going to be trusting you with that much money.

  • Investor · Knoxville, TN · Member since 2012 · 96 posts · 33 votes
    12y

    Those homes are beautiful by the way.

  • Investor · Knoxville, TN · Member since 2012 · 96 posts · 33 votes
    12y

    I just now realized those are the same house. Great work!

  • Investor · Kennesaw, GA · Member since 2010 · 158 posts · 61 votes
    12y

    I like the idea, but would share the same concerns Wesley voiced above. Fantastic work on that house by the way!

  • Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 212 posts · 107 votes
    12y

    My question is how the heck do you find a $230-280k house in Brookhaven...

  • Developer · Decatur, GA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    Your scenario of 50/50 split with the investor is fair and typical. Your return estimates are a bit soft because there's not a specific house, I suspect. Splitting a $100k on a $450k investment 2x per year would work.

    Investors would be targeting 20% annualized returns. You may have to do a 10% preferred return to the money guy/gal. I think it might go something like this.

    1. You get paid a pre-determined GC/Handler fee ... not your typical 30%. :-)

    2. Then they get paid up to a 10% preferred return.

    3. Then you get paid up to a 10% return.

    4. Then you split the 'excess profits'.

    Looking at your great work, you may want to go after some of the 'white elephants' in Atlanta AND/OR do new construction with retail values of $800k and up.

    White elephants would be like the house in the Highlands you did. You'd need to cover a bit more territory including Chastain, Mt. Paran, Buckhead, etc. to find more of those.

    Rick

  • Developer · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2014 · 19 posts · 6 votes
    12y

    Thanks @Wesley C.

    I hadn't thought about a sliding scale like that but I think you are correct. My main issue isn't execution since I'm not a newbie, it's providing a comfort level to the investor at a higher price point. I suppose I could have a set scale of profit ranges that tied to our percentages, from a high of 50/50 to a low of 100/0 if the sky fell. I'm not looking for a quick buck, so my risk would be my labor and I would be willing to risk it all for the investor to see a return. Thanks again!

    And thanks @Rick Baggenstoss

    I do plan on expanding outward to Chastain and Historic Brookhaven/Buckhead but this is the crawling part before walking. Chastain lot prices are double, the costs are double, and the profit is triple based on houses I've walked but that requires over $1m in capital/financing. Your fee structure is interesting, I will do more research on that kind of setup as its more detailed and new to me. Thanks for all the great advice!

  • Developer · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2014 · 19 posts · 6 votes
    12y

    @Account Closed

    New Brookhaven has those lots, not Historic Brookhaven. Ashford Park and Drew Valley to be specific but they require some work to find. And it's a feeding frenzy right now so I'm doing it the old fashioned way, in person.

  • Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 212 posts · 107 votes
    12y

    Gotcha. You've done some nice homes. I doubt you'll have any problem attracting capital under something akin to your proposed structure (with or without the proposed tweaks). What about a scenario where the investor contributes the lot and/or some capital and you do the work in exchange for an equity share? I ask with selfish motives as I'm looking at a property in Buckhead that needs a significant structural overhaul due to curb appeal problems.

  • Developer · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2014 · 19 posts · 6 votes
    12y

    @Account Closed

    That may work, I have most of my capital tied up in two new projects but I'm always willing to look at different scenarios. Let me know if you want to talk further.

  • Contractor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2012 · 176 posts · 103 votes
    12y

    Blake, I just moved from Brookhaven last summer. Your model sounds exactly like what I did.

    I had a 60's split level in Murphey Candler. I pulled the roof off the ranch side of the split, raised the ceiling to 9', completely redid the kitchen, and added a floor above with an awesome master suite. We sold last summer for $640. Now my plan was to stay in that house until they wheeled me out into an ambulance, but things changed and we decided to sell. We had multiple offers at 600 but only one at 640.

    This will work, but I'm not as high on Drew Valley. Ashford Park or the north side of Brookhaven, without a doubt.

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