Concord, NH · Member since 2016 · 22 posts · 12 votes
Hello, I recently purchased my new duplex. Of course, before purchasing the house, I invited a home inspector, and he did a pretty decent job. As a result, the seller had to fix some electrical, mold, and foundation issues.
However, one major issue was overlooked by my home inspector: the seller had remodeled the kitchen and laid hardwood floor on top of the main furnace grid, which was originally located in the kitchen. When I turned the furnace for the first time, I realized that something was wrong: it sounded like an out-of-balance washing machine and it frequently turned off and on (every 1-5 minutes). A professional HVAC technician cleaned up the furnace and fix the furnace blower. However, he discovered the real issue - the furnace was overheating a lot since the hot air had nowhere to go. The HVAC team can open the kitchen floor and resolve the issue, but this will cost me a few hundreds of dollars.
My question is: can I make the seller pay for this since the issue was clearly caused by him?
(If it helps, the seller is an experienced real-estate agent and a house flipper. )
Rental Property Investor · Alexandria, VA · Member since 2016 · 75 posts · 58 votes
9y
Hi, is this your first investment property? I would eat up the cost since it's only a few hundreds. Maybe if you bought home warranty at timr of closing they'll fix it, but seriously if few hundreds are going to affect your ROI, the the deal isn't that good.
Investor · Bethel, AK · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 852 votes
9y
Yulia it's my experience you can't "make" anybody do anything without spending a bunch of money in court or with a lawyer. That being said you can "ask" the seller for some help. That won't cost anything and if he flipped this house to you he may fix it in the spirit of keeping a good reputation. It will likely cost more to force him to fix it than it will to simply pay for the repair. RR
Flipper/Rehabber · Montgomery, NY · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y
If you only spend a "few hundred" to fix an issue from a previous owner (flipper or not) consider yourself lucky. Did you home inspector not run the furnace and notice the sound/issues at that time? Sounds like it would have happened had you tested the system at time of inspection.
If you only spend a "few hundred" to fix an issue from a previous owner (flipper or not) consider yourself lucky. Did you home inspector not run the furnace and notice the sound/issues at that time? Sounds like it would have happened had you tested the system at time of inspection.
I remember him turning on the thermostat, but we definitely did not run the furnace long enough (5-10 minutes) to start hearing the sound. I would consider myself lucky if I didn't have to deal with poorly installed siding (also installed by the seller), which is now falling off.
If you only spend a "few hundred" to fix an issue from a previous owner (flipper or not) consider yourself lucky. Did you home inspector not run the furnace and notice the sound/issues at that time? Sounds like it would have happened had you tested the system at time of inspection.
I remember him turning on the thermostat, but we definitely did not run the furnace long enough (5-10 minutes) to start hearing the sound. I would consider myself lucky if I didn't have to deal with poorly installed siding (also installed by the seller), which is now falling off.
Sorry you are dealing with this. If it is any consolation you can use it as a learning experience and run the heat/AC for longer than just kicking it on.
Why is the siding falling off? Is it a poor substrate, lack of nails, nails too short... I imagine if you can prove shoddy work there may be some recourse, sadly it's a roll of the dice whether or not it is worth going after anything.
A large floor vent located right above the furnace. (That's how the HVAC technician explained it to me.) The house obviously has a number of regular-shaped floor vents, but the main one is covered with hardwood floor.
Concord, NH · Member since 2016 · 22 posts · 12 votes
9y
Thank you:) Yes, i'm enjoying the learning curve but would like to stop spending money on this house for now:)
As for the siding, in two spots, two siding pieces fell off and are now hanging.
Also, after I installed several new replacement windows, I realized that whoever worked on the siding "forgot" to wrap a few storm windows. (Sorry, I might not explaining it right, but that's what a few contractors I had asked for a quote said.)
Investor · Cleveland, TN · Member since 2016 · 280 posts · 187 votes
9y
Personally, I would think the home inspector would be more at fault than the previous owner. The home inspector may be willing to work with you on fixing the issue, it would seem he was the negligent party. This is just my opinion, but that would be my first call.
Hi, is this your first investment property? I would eat up the cost since it's only a few hundreds. Maybe if you bought home warranty at timr of closing they'll fix it, but seriously if few hundreds are going to affect your ROI, the the deal isn't that good.
Sam, yes, I'm very new in real estate investing. The deal still seems to be good (haha, unless I discover more "surprises").
Personally, I would think the home inspector would be more at fault than the previous owner. The home inspector may be willing to work with you on fixing the issue, it would seem he was the negligent party. This is just my opinion, but that would be my first call.
I agree that the home inspector is also at fault here. However, the seller was the one who covered the in floor air return (or whatever this thing is called). The seller owns a bunch of homes and claims to be a professional builder. P.s. The reason I believe the seller did that is because, according to the HVAC technician, running the furnace with the blocked in floor air return would have killed the furnace pretty soon. However, the furnace is still in a decent shape.
Investor · Grovetown, GA · Member since 2016 · 13 posts · 8 votes
9y
I would definitely tell the home inspector of the furnace air return floored over problem. Maybe the home inspector is bonded and could pay or help pay for your cost to correct problem.
Oak Ridge, NJ · Member since 2016 · 103 posts · 95 votes
9y
Residential mechanical code states that return air inlets are prohibited in kitchens unless the system is serving only the kitchen. The open concept may give you some leeway in the eyes of an inspector because it may be difficult to determine where the kitchen ends and the adjoining room starts. Under no circumstance is the return allowed to be installed closer than 10 ft from the stove. If the return inlet was caused to be in violation by a kitchen renovation, even if it was part of an existing HVAC system, it should have been required by the code officials to be moved. I would be concerned that this work was done without permits and has not received code official approval. If this is the case you could have other issues as well. I would suggest checking with your town building department to determine if there have been any permits pulled for this work and if any of those permits are still outstanding and awaiting inspection.
Residential mechanical code states that return air inlets are prohibited in kitchens unless the system is serving only the kitchen. The open concept may give you some leeway in the eyes of an inspector because it may be difficult to determine where the kitchen ends and the adjoining room starts. Under no circumstance is the return allowed to be installed closer than 10 ft from the stove. If the return inlet was caused to be in violation by a kitchen renovation, even if it was part of an existing HVAC system, it should have been required by the code officials to be moved. I would be concerned that this work was done without permits and has not received code official approval. If this is the case you could have other issues as well. I would suggest checking with your town building department to determine if there have been any permits pulled for this work and if any of those permits are still outstanding and awaiting inspection.
Oh, my. I had no idea...I've just measured the distance between the stove and where the return inlet used to be - 12 feet.
But isn't it a code violation to simply close a return inlet without making a new one? (Boy, I'm just really glad I called HVAC professionals in time.)
Oak Ridge, NJ · Member since 2016 · 103 posts · 95 votes
9y
I can't say that it's necessarily a code violation to cover the return but doing so will definitely leave you with a system that does not operate. At the very least there will be no airflow through the furnace and it will shut down on its high temperature safety controls. At worst, if the controls fail to operate properly, the furnace could be destroyed due to overheating.
Fortunately, as someone mentioned earlier, this is all probably an easy fix. Since you're not in violation of distance to the stove just cut away the flooring that was placed over the return and install a new grill. It should be less than an hour's work plus the cost of a grill. My guess is that would be less expensive than trying to legally go after the home inspector or previous owner.
Spring, TX · Member since 2014 · 75 posts · 39 votes
9y
You have little leverage, and it’s small dollars. I would just pay it and consider it cost of education. If it was more expensive, and you believe they falsified Information that might be a different sorry
It's an easy problem to fix that requires a drill with a spade bit, jigsaw and about 15 minutes.
Well, the original return inlet was in an awkward place: right between the kitchen hutch and the dining table. The HVAC technician said he would try to move it to a different place, if possible, and that it would take half a day of work and a few hundred dollars. The house is also over 100 years old, and there are three layers of flooring in the kitchen - dining area:) So, we'll see. I'll post here the total cost of the job for the others just in case someone else encounters a similar problem.
Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
9y
If this seller - a known builder/flipper/agent doesn't do something to help you after you ask nicely, I wouldn't take it lying down. I wouldn't take them to court or anything, but I'd make it a several hundred dollar hobby letting others know there is a rat in the market and an incompetent one at that. Who covers the cold air return with flooring???
I have a personal policy of not buying from flippers. Seen it from others multiple times. Corners cut. Shade covered. No thanks for me.