Foundation Picture and Question

Rehabbing & House Flipping
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Foundation Picture and Question

Derek T.
Real Estate Investor · Prince Geroge's County, MD · Member since 2012 · 392 posts · 104 votes

I saw a house today that had a pretty significant crack right in the middle of the concrete steps that lead to the front door. In addition, there was a smaller crack in the basement (concrete slab) in the same area as the other crack (middle of the house). One corner of the house seemed to be lower than the middle but I didn't notice any cracks in the walls, ceilings, etc. The foundation problems didn't seem that bad to me however I wouldn't know any better. In addition, there was a little water in the basement where the smaller crack was and it seemed to come from the crack as I didn't see an evidence of the water coming down from above or anywhere else in the room.

Anyway I am looking for any input on how extensive a job like this might be, a rough estimate for the job. Also I know it is possible for water to come up in the basement through a crack so I imagine this is the culprit for the water however what would be involved to fix this or would it be fixed with the foundation repair? I am mainly looking to adjust my repair estimates for my offer and I would get it inspected upon approval of the offer.

I included the pictures I took of it......sorry I didn't take better pictures. The first picture is of the small crack in the basement and the second is of the larger one on the entry steps.

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Dave Savage
Investor · Rochester, NY · Member since 2012 · 316 posts · 102 votes
13y

If the crack is in the floor and water coming through there, it would be similar to a house I dealt with. I installed a french drain and new sump pit and it solved the problem as the water had no where to drain to below the slab. It cost about $4k for the french drain and sump to go around a ~650sq ft basement.

If the crack is in the wall I would follow J Scott's advice if you did want to tackle this house, possibly in combination with a french drain.

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  • Rob K.
    Investor · Southeast, MI · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y

    Horizontal cracks in basement walls are bad news. It's usually a sign of significant foundation problems. I always run from those houses.

    On the flip side, vertical cracks are usually no big deal. While they might leak, they can be easily fixed with epoxy.

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  • Steve M.
    Realtor · Gallatin, TN · Member since 2009 · 292 posts · 164 votes
    13y

    As Rob has stated, horizontal cracks are a big no, no. 90% of the time, you could run a straight edge or level across, and you will see that the foundation is actually bowing in/out.

    I almost took on a house with issues, but at the last minute backed out. A french drain was never installed near the front of the basement which thus caused some serious cracking/bowing.

    I'm sure if I knew more about the associated costs, I'd consider them again, but I don't. So I stay away :)

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  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    13y

    Horizontal cracks in slabs are generally a sign of static pressure from the exterior (water pushing against the wall). Often it's just a drainage issue on the exterior (water not being drained far enough from the house by good gutter system). In those cases, if you fix the drainage, you won't have any additional movement/cracking in the wall.

    But, you'll likely still need to fix the wall. That can generally either be done with steel plates or Kevlar strips. Here's what the plates look like (from one of my flips):

    http://123flip.com/wp-content/uploads/Yellow_Stain_House/Rehab/foundation1_thumb.JPG

    If you don't plan to finish the room and the plates will be visible, you may find that future buyers are turned off by the obvious foundation work that was done. If you plan to finish the space and can get a warranty on the work, in my experience, you won't have too much impact on the resale.

    Now, all that said, I'm under the impression from your original post that the crack is in the floor, not the wall. If that's the case, that's a bigger issue. Especially if water is coming up through the crack.

    I'm not a foundation expert, but that likely means that the slab has failed and you're probably looking at a much more complicated and expensive fix. You'll want to talk to a foundation company to know for sure.

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  • Karen MargraveBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Realtor, General Contractor, and Developer · Redding, CA · Member since 2009 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    13y

    Too many unknowns, walk away.

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  • John H.
    Massachusetts, MA · Member since 2009 · 144 posts · 31 votes
    13y

    Need more photo's...

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  • Dave Savage
    Investor · Rochester, NY · Member since 2012 · 316 posts · 102 votes
    13y

    If the crack is in the floor and water coming through there, it would be similar to a house I dealt with. I installed a french drain and new sump pit and it solved the problem as the water had no where to drain to below the slab. It cost about $4k for the french drain and sump to go around a ~650sq ft basement.

    If the crack is in the wall I would follow J Scott's advice if you did want to tackle this house, possibly in combination with a french drain.

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  • Mike ReynoldsPro Member
    construction · Nacogdoches, TX · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y

    Derek Tyler

    You say they are in the steps leading to the house? Are these steps over the basement or outside of the basement? Most contractors pour steps well after the slab and its sad to say they don't always use the steel they should on them. Many believe that they are not load bearing and while that is true, they still need proper steel put in them. Ice and heat put stress on them and thye tend to crack.
    This may be the only problem you have but need more pictures really.

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  • Derek T.
    OP
    Real Estate Investor · Prince Geroge's County, MD · Member since 2012 · 392 posts · 104 votes
    13y

    Thanks everyone for the response. I really think it needs a french drain installed along with some concrete work but I decided to walk away from it. The deal wasn't great to begin with. I was going to list about $15,000 or so below asking until I saw this problem. Once I saw this is got me really concerned. It is under contract now so someone decided it was a good buy.

    Mike Reynolds Mike the steps were leading up to the house (the front door). The steps were pretty center in relation to the house and it was almost dead center with the crack in the basement.

    On another note, I just saw a house yesterday that had an addition built on to the back that looked like it had no foundation at all supporting it. It was built on cinder blocks and they were cracking/separating. That addition is going to come down anytime now. I will attach a picture when I get home.

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  • Bill Gulley
    Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    13y

    I thought the pics were of piers at first, turning them appears to be steps. They look to me to be cinder block steps. As mentioned, freezing and thawing usually takes to toll on this cheap approach of building steps. Probably hollow.

    The crack in the steps and the wall or floor maybe totally unrelated. If the top step is tied into any porch joist (if there is one) that can transfer the stress from the wall to the steps, so they can be related.

    If one end seems lower, look at that end outside and see what the drainage is like. Look for verticle cracks in the basement walls, usually you don't get just one when there is a low corner of settlement and the cracks may chase in any direction. I'd be concerned about poor footings and water erroding from under the footing. A load bearing foundation end can settle without cracking but cracking along the non-bearing portion as it hangs and becomes a bearing wall.

    You can have some seperation of bottom wall plates, the lowest being below the sub floor and the higher where sheetrock is attahed and there may not be any cracks in the interior sheetrock walls.

    A good way to eyeball settlement is to stand away from the building and look at the roof ridge checking for level. If your truss system is adequate and you have a saddle, sinking in the middle, you usually have foundation issues in the centerly area, if the ridge breaks toward one end, look to that end.

    As J. Scott mentioned, hydrostatic pressure can be caused by several sources. Sometimes this can be solved by cutting a hole in the floor and boxing in a sump allowing the water to enter without the pressure and install a pump.

    As mentioned above, we don't have enough inforamtion and it's hard to judge from pictures, the further you pic is taken away from the subject spot the better as a close up doesn't give the big picture.

    I'd suggest you get a foundation guy/gal out there and have it inspected. Your issue could be a minor fix, then again. you could have major problems with footings over a soft base. Who knows????

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  • Derek T.
    OP
    Real Estate Investor · Prince Geroge's County, MD · Member since 2012 · 392 posts · 104 votes
    13y

    Thanks Bill for the detailed explanation. You are correct, the first picture was of concrete steps and the second was of the crack in the floor in the basement.

    Here is the picture of the other house I was talking about where the cinder blocks seemed to be cracking due to no real foundation in place. I am not sure exactly what is going on here but the house looked like a pretty good deal until I saw this.

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  • Mike ReynoldsPro Member
    construction · Nacogdoches, TX · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y

    Is that a pier and beam house or am I looking at it wrong?

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  • Bill Gulley
    Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    13y

    That appears to have drainage in the low area probably holding water and compromising the footing under the access door. It looks like to the right side, it is cracking as well, sinking under the door area with seperation at the plate as I mentioned above, but this is obvious. That access should have a steel lantel over it, a longer one could have saved some of that.

    While it looks bad, it can be fixed, $$$$, $50 of fill dirt and some grading would probably have prevented that.

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  • Derek T.
    OP
    Real Estate Investor · Prince Geroge's County, MD · Member since 2012 · 392 posts · 104 votes
    13y

    It may be for this addition but the rest of the house is over a basement. I think this was someone's master bedroom addition project. I deleted all of the pics because it is under contract now but the work was very suspect inside and out.

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