Are Materials Included in Bid? What counts are materials?

Question

Hello all! I have a question regarding construction bids. When the contractor that I hired signed the contract with me, he said that materials are to be covered by him, and all fixtures are to be covered by me. Now he says that he only covers lumber, nails, and screws. The rest (pipe, brackets, hold downs, anything not lumber/nails/screws) are my responsibility. Our contract does not specify what counts as materials, only materials vs fixtures.

Is this the standard? Or is this guy being shady? I appreciate your advice.

David Robertson · Answer

Generally, materials are broken down into two categories:

• Rough Materials (lumber, nails, screws, brackets, piping, fittings, mortar, wiring, outlets, switches, drywall, etc.)
• Finish Materials (tile, grout, flooring, paint, light fixtures, plumbing fixtures, door knobs, etc.)

The way that I structure my contracts is that I buy the finish materials and have my Contractor provide all rough materials.

I think it's strange your Contractor wants you to buy piping, brackets, etc, because I would classify that as rough materials.

There's no way I would ever want to be responsible for buying all of the piping, fittings, elbows, p-traps, etc for my Contractor...I would be at Home Depot all day buying and returning stuff!

David Robertson · Answer

Here's a Material Responsibility Checklist that might be helpful to clarify who is responsible for which materials on your project.  I have uploaded the Template to my fileplace where you can find the PDF version as well as a link to the editable Google Sheet.

https://www.biggerpockets.com/files/user/drobertson/file/rehab-project-material-responsibility-list

Jimmy Deringer · Answer

@Kristy F. He might be trying to not be shady but they’re as definitely some confusion. The idea makes sense when the contractor tells you that you cover fixtures and finishes. He knows the cost of subfloor but he doesn’t know the cost of the toilet you’re going to buy. You might like the $98 Home Depot special or maybe a $1,000 bidet is your style.

He doesn’t want to get stuck with the extra cost.

Have him provide allowances for fixtures, finishes and installation so you have a better idea of final costs.

Better yet. Pick out the finishes now and tell him to include the materials and install into the bid.

If there’s confusion I wouldn’t be signing the contract, and definitely don’t let him start work.

Having him start work is the fastest way to butt heads and have him leave you with a gutted house that you’re stuck with! :)

Lynsey Dreis · Answer

@Kristy F. If your contract says materials (a blanket statement) and that you were supplying the fixtures only, I would argue that the subcontractor is getting ALL materials needed to get the scope of work completed excluding the fixtures you are supplying.

I agree with @David Robertson about it being weird he is saying that you need to buy all piping, brackets etc.  Typically a subcontractor will spell out excluded items on his proposal that he is expecting you to get.

Scott P. · Answer

I would ask myself:

1. Do I know anyone else who has worked with the contractor who I can ask how this subject was treated by them/him?  If so, I'd contact them and ask.

2. I'm wondering what he thinks his mechanism is to bill for "pipe, brackets, hold downs,..."?  Does he think he's going to give you receipts for reimbursement?

Lots of other questions run through my mind....I don't know for sure what I'd do but I might:

1. Say, "Time Out...Stop Work...Leave my property.  Send me the detailed list of the anything else you think you're going to bill for because I'm clearly telling you now that i'm not paying.  You'll get my confirmation letter in the mail."

2. On the other hand, if job is small and we're only talking an extra cost of $500 I'd probably pay him after he hands me his Final Waiver of Lien and never work with him again.

3.  Do something else.

I keep 2 part carbonless paper with me at all times.  I use it when I make an agreement on the fly with a Contractor, a Tenant, etc.  Then we each sign it and we get a copy.  I tell them it's in case I "get hit by a bus" and they have to deal w/my wife (but it's also obviously in case they get amnesia and forget something we agreed to.)  That really wouldn't have helped you in the original scope of what was included but it might help you now if you'd like to document your conversations.

Kristy F. · Answer

He is about 2/3 of the way through. My husband and I both heard him say all materials are on him, all fixtures are on us. I remember me clarifying what materials include. He said lumber, nails, screws etc. Now he is saying lumber, nails, and screws that's it, which is very strange to me.

Scott P. · Answer

I'm sorry to hear about this situation. I agree with the comments so far by @Lynsey Dreis

@David Robertson and @Jimmy Deringer since what they are saying is what is standard/customary in my area.  Since you're saying the work includes both "lumber" and "pipe", I'm guessing this is a general contractor and not just a framer or a plumber?

I'm hoping you haven't given a deposit and that the contractor has not started work and that you're not in a time crunch.  If he's telling you this before he starts work I'd give him the benefit of the doubt that it's a misunderstanding and I'd consider his new price.

I don't know enough details to give you advice but based solely on what you've said I would stop everything until this gets worked out.

I hope he's not surprising you with this after he completed the work....

Are Materials Included in Bid? What counts are materials?

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